00073
 1                      V O L U M E  II
 2                 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR
 3                MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND
 4  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
 5  PAUL W. HASSLER,
 6                  Plaintiff
 7             v.                      Civil No. 186394
 8  SUZANNE ADELE SUTTON,
 9                  Defendant
10  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
11                             Rockville, Maryland
12                             Thursday, December 31, 1998
13  
14  Continuation of the Deposition of
15                      PAUL W. HASSLER
16  called for oral examination by counsel for the
17  Defendant, pursuant to notice, held in the offices of
18  Miller, Miller & Canby, 200-B Monroe Street, Rockville,
19  Maryland, beginning at 9:07 a.m., before Cindy L.
20  Wilmoth, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary
21  Public in and for the State of Maryland, when were
22  present:
00074
 1        ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF:
 2             CHARLES S. RAND, ESQUIRE
 3             McKernon & Rand
 4             207 Baltimore Road
 5             Rockville, Maryland  20850-4133
 6             (301) 762-1400
 7        ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT:
 8             JOSEPH P. SUNTUM, ESQUIRE
 9             Miller, Miller & Canby
10             200-B Monroe Street
11             Rockville, Maryland  20850
12             (301) 762-5212
13  
14        ALSO PRESENT:
15             Suzanne A. Sutton
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
00075
 1                   C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S
 2  EXAMINATION OF PAUL W. HASSLER              PAGE
 3        By Mr. Suntum                          76
 4  
 5                   E  X  H  I  B  I  T  S
 6              (Exhibits retained by counsel.)
 7  DEFENDANT                                   PAGE
 8  3     Letter regarding concerns as           79
 9        wrestling coach
10  4     Answers to Interrogatories             88
11  5     NO EXHIBIT NUMBER 5 WAS MARKED        139
12  6     Clinic Roster                         144
13  7     Employee File                         195
14  
15  
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
00076
 1                   P R O C E E D I N G S
 2                      PAUL W. HASSLER
 3       having been previously sworn, testified as follows:
 4          EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE DEFENDANT
 5  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 6       Q     You understand you're still under oath from
 7  yesterday, do you not?
 8       A     Yes, I do.
 9             MR. RAND:  She's not a party.  It's not her
10  deposition.
11             MR. SUNTUM:  There's no rule on witnesses at
12  deposition.
13             MR. RAND:  It doesn't matter.  She's not
14  entitled to be here.
15             MR. SUNTUM:  Where in the rules does it
16  say --
17             MR. RAND:  There's only one person allowed to
18  be here, and that's the party itself.
19             MR. SUNTUM:  Where does it say that in the
20  rules?
21             MR. RAND:  If she's going to be here, we'll
22  leave right now.  She's not allowed to be here, and you
00077
 1  know it.
 2             MR. SUNTUM:  There is no rule on witnesses
 3  in --
 4             MR. RAND:  You're not allowed to have anybody
 5  but the witness being deposed and the party.  You know
 6  that.
 7             MR. SUNTUM:  That is in court where there is
 8  a rule on witnesses.
 9             MR. RAND:  No, sir.  We are going to leave
10  this deposition right now.  She's not going to learn
11  from Mr. Hassler's testimony --
12             MS. SUTTON:  You gentlemen don't want to do
13  this.  You've found every opportunity you can to not
14  have this go forward.
15             MR. RAND:  If you'd like, we'll go see the
16  duty judge right now and resolve this.  She's not
17  allowed to be here, period.  Why do you want her here?
18             MR. SUNTUM:  She has come down to spend the
19  day here to convenience you while she is home on
20  vacation.
21             MR. RAND:  That's fine.  She's not allowed to
22  be in this deposition.  Let's go see the duty judge
00078
 1  right now if you want to.
 2             MR. SUNTUM:  These depositions were
 3  originally set up on different dates so she wouldn't
 4  have to sit here twiddling her thumbs.
 5             MR. RAND:  She is not going to be in this
 6  room while the depo is being taken, Joe.  Go get a
 7  ruling on it.
 8             MR. SUNTUM:  Well, Mr. Hassler, if you can't
 9  stand being confronted with a student, we'll --
10             MR. RAND:  This is my objection, sir.  Not
11  his.
12             MR. SUNTUM:  Because he is apparently
13  unwilling to give his testimony in front of her.
14             MR. RAND:  There's going to be a transcript
15  of this, and she'll be able to read it.  We're ashamed
16  of nothing.
17             MS. SUTTON:  We let your gentleman sit here.
18             MR. RAND:  I don't need to hear from her,
19  thank you very much.  We're not going to proceed with
20  her here.  What do you want to do about that?
21             MR. SUNTUM:  If you're not going to proceed,
22  we're going to have to ask her to step out because I
00079
 1  want this man's deposition.
 2             MR. RAND:  That's fine.  We're happy to give
 3  it.
 4             MR. SUNTUM:  Wait for us outside.
 5               (Discussion off the record.)
 6             MR. RAND:  Madam Reporter, did you note the
 7  comment that Mr. Hassler had done everything he could to
 8  not have his deposition taken today?
 9             THE REPORTER:  Yes.
10             MR. RAND:  I'd like you to go ahead and
11  explain just what you meant by that.
12             MR. SUNTUM:  I'm going to start the
13  deposition.
14             MR. RAND:  Madam Reporter, for the record,
15  I'd like to put something else on, which is I have
16  severe laryngitis today.  I've asked that the deposition
17  of the deponent, Genny Sutton, be postponed until I'm
18  able to take it.  Mr. Suntum has not agreed to that, and
19  I've told him I'll go as far as my voice would last.
20             (Exhibit Number 3 was marked for
21  identification and was retained by counsel.)
22  BY MR. SUNTUM:
00080
 1       Q     Mr. Hassler, do you contend that Ms. Sutton
 2  had no basis for the statements she made in her letter
 3  against you that was attached as an Exhibit 1 to your
 4  complaint?
 5       A     Yes.
 6       Q     Let me direct your attention to page three of
 7  her letter, paragraph three, where it references that
 8  she has talked to many parents about these incidences.
 9  Do you have any reason to believe that she did not talk
10  to many parents, and that her statements reflect the
11  feelings of many parents in the Magruder community?
12       A     I have knowledge that she has talked to many
13  parents.
14       Q     Do you believe that the parents are telling
15  her things different than she is reflecting in her
16  letter?
17       A     I don't know what the parents told her.
18       Q     Do you find it possible to believe then that
19  many parents feel the same way she does?
20       A     Many as in?
21             MR. RAND:  He's asking you to clarify,
22  Counsel.
00081
 1  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 2       Q     The definition of many is more than a few.
 3       A     More than one.
 4       Q     More than a few?
 5       A     No.  We can argue over that, but logically
 6  the definition of many is more than one.
 7       Q     So you think there are just two parents in
 8  the Magruder community that feel the way she does?
 9       A     I could not tell you how many in the Magruder
10  community feel the same.
11       Q     Do you understand that many parents in the
12  Magruder community feel the same way she does?
13       A     No, I do not.
14       Q     In addition to Ms. Sutton, there were at
15  least three parents that came forward after the 1998
16  season and asked that you not continue as coach?
17       A     I do not know that.
18       Q     That's what you have been informed by
19  Mr. Nori, the principal?
20       A     He told me after the 1998 season there were
21  three parents that came forward and expressed concerns
22  not that I not coach.  He said expressed concerns.  He
00082
 1  did not tell me the substance of what their concerns
 2  were nor would he -- he just said he made his decision
 3  based on his feelings towards the situation, plus I feel
 4  that also the lawsuit which I filed had a great impact
 5  on my continuing, and he felt that it was in the best
 6  interest of Magruder High School to move on with the
 7  program, that he felt that the job I had done had been a
 8  fair to good job.  He wouldn't say it was excellent.
 9             MR. RAND:  Keep your voice down, Paul.
10             THE WITNESS:  Okay.
11             And -- I lost my train of thought.
12  BY MR. SUNTUM:
13       Q     Fair to good job, not excellent?
14       A     I think that's very adequate to say.
15       Q     All right.  So there are at least three other
16  parents that had concerns about you as a coach according
17  to Mr. Nori?
18       A     Three other, no.  There were a total of
19  three.
20       Q     Are you suggesting that Suzanne Sutton went
21  to Mr. Nori after the 1998 season?
22       A     I don't know whether she went to Mr. Nori.
00083
 1       Q     Are you assuming that she was one of the
 2  three?
 3       A     I do not know who the three were.  I was not
 4  apprised as to who the three were.
 5       Q     Let me show you Deposition Exhibit Number 3,
 6  and ask you if you've seen that letter before.
 7       A     I was not aware of this.
 8       Q     You've never seen that letter before?
 9       A     I have never seen this letter.
10       Q     Does this letter reflect that there is at
11  least one other parent in addition to Mrs. Sutton that
12  had the same complaints about you as a wrestling coach?
13             MR. RAND:  I object.  This is not signed.  We
14  have no idea if it's valid or where it came from.  The
15  man said he's never seen it.
16  BY MR. SUNTUM:
17       Q     Assume for the purposes of this question this
18  is a letter that was written to Ms. Boveau-Johnson
19  concerning you as a wrestling coach at Magruder High
20  School.  It reflects the same complaints about you as a
21  wrestling coach that Mrs. Sutton expressed as a softball
22  coach; is that right?
00084
 1             MR. RAND:  Objection.  He's not assuming
 2  anything.  He is not going to guess.
 3  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 4       Q     Do you know Mrs. Wallace?
 5       A     Yes.
 6       Q     You had a son of hers on your wrestling team?
 7       A     Yes.
 8       Q     Assuming this letter was written by her, do
 9  you know that?
10       A     No, I don't know that.
11       Q     Do you understand that now there is another
12  parent that had the same concerns about you as a coach?
13       A     Mrs. Wallace and I spoke about the situation
14  because Mrs. Sutton has on numerous occasions tutored
15  her son, daughter, whatever, and has and did have many
16  conversations with this parent concerning my coaching,
17  my teaching, et cetera.
18             When I spoke with Mrs. Wallace last spring,
19  it was concerning something her son had said to my
20  daughter in one of my classes and that I was calling her
21  up because of the fact that my daughter was coming home
22  extremely upset at what her son was telling my daughter.
00085
 1             Mrs. Wallace said, "Why are you calling me,
 2  you know, just because I went in and talked to
 3  Mr. Nori?"  And that's the first I had any notice that
 4  Mrs. Wallace had had any interaction with Mr. Nori
 5  whatsoever, and Mrs. Wallace told me at that period of
 6  time that while there are many things that she is in
 7  disagreement with me, there are also many things which
 8  she does not agree with Mrs. Sutton on concerning this
 9  whole matter.
10       Q     Are you suggesting that Mrs. Sutton put her
11  up to writing this letter?
12       A     I'm not suggesting anything.  I just stated
13  what I know personally.
14       Q     Well, the author of this letter reflects that
15  they have --
16       A     There is no author in this letter.
17       Q     There is an author of this letter.  The
18  author of this letter states, "I have seen him berate
19  and humiliate wrestlers after coming off the mat in
20  front of parents, students and opponents."  Is that
21  something you do as a wrestling coach?
22       A     I think the terms berate and humiliate
00086
 1  wrestlers after coming off the mat, I guess is in the
 2  eyes of the beholder, however they take it.
 3       Q     Well, do you understand there are many
 4  parents in the Magruder community that take your actions
 5  in this fashion?
 6       A     No, I do not.
 7       Q     Well, look at the third paragraph of the
 8  letter, the last sentence, in which the author of this
 9  letter states that, "I feel, as do many," italicized,
10  "other parents who have come to me about this, that it
11  is time for him to step aside as coach for the
12  betterment of the wrestling program."
13             Again, other parents, reflecting that she has
14  spoken to many other parents, has that caused you to
15  believe that there are many parents in the Magruder
16  community that have the same objection as Mrs. Sutton
17  does?
18             MR. RAND:  Objection.  This is not signed.
19  We have no idea what we're talking about.
20  BY MR. SUNTUM:
21       Q     Do you have an answer to that?
22       A     I concur with what my attorney says.
00087
 1       Q     You just are still oblivious to the feelings
 2  of many parents in the Magruder community?
 3       A     No.
 4             MR. RAND:  You're asking him to testify about
 5  a letter he's never seen before.
 6  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 7       Q     My question is:  Are you aware that there are
 8  many parents in the Magruder community that feel the
 9  same as Mrs. Sutton?
10       A     Am I aware that there are many?
11             MR. RAND:  Objection.  Asked and answered.
12  He already testified there was not more than a few.
13  BY MR. SUNTUM:
14       Q     My question is:  Are you aware that there are
15  many parents in the Magruder community that feel the
16  same as Mrs. Sutton?
17             MR. RAND:  Object.  Asked and answered.
18       A     No.
19  BY MR. SUNTUM:
20       Q     So you're oblivious to that?
21       A     I didn't say I was oblivious to anything.
22  You said I was oblivious.
00088
 1       Q     You're at least unaware?
 2       A     I am unaware.
 3       Q     Have you read Mrs. Sutton's Answers to
 4  Interrogatories in this case?
 5       A     Yes, I have.
 6             (Exhibit Number 4 was marked for
 7  identification and was retained by counsel.)
 8  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 9       Q     Let me show you what's been marked as
10  Deposition Exhibit Number 4, which is a copy of her
11  Answers to Interrogatories.
12             Do you know Jeff Saunders?
13       A     Yes, I do know Jeff Saunders.
14       Q     He was a player on your JV baseball team, was
15  he not?
16       A     Yes, he was.
17       Q     Did you read his statement that was
18  reflected --
19       A     Yes, I did.
20       Q     Do you have any reason to suggest that Jeff
21  Saunders is being untruthful?
22             MR. RAND:  Object again.  We have hearsay
00089
 1  answers unsigned by anyone.  We have no idea who the
 2  author is.  With that objection, we'll go through all of
 3  these.  That will be a continuing objection if that's
 4  all right with you.
 5             MR. SUNTUM:  That's fine with me.
 6  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 7       Q     Do you have any reason to suggest that Jeff
 8  Saunders would be untruthful in anything he is saying
 9  about his opinion of you?
10       A     In general, students have a different way of
11  taking a look at situations, which I don't like to
12  categorize as being untruthful.  To them it might be
13  very truthful.  Whether the actual situation or the
14  actual answers are true is sometimes very questionable.
15             It's how they perceive it, how they deal with
16  a situation, and in many times when we do have
17  differences of opinion and do have differences the way
18  things are dealt with, we can sit down, discuss the
19  matter, in a very informal manner, in a formal manner,
20  no matter how it is, and work through these situations.
21             Sometimes very innocent -- very innocent
22  situations are blown out of proportion with the way
00090
 1  students perceive them, the way students deal with them,
 2  and like I said, when they become a -- an extremely
 3  difficult situation, and a third party or more are
 4  brought in, work through the situation, then we have
 5  always been able to work towards some kind of an
 6  amicable agreement.
 7       Q     Do you understand that students might
 8  perceive what you think is innocent in a different
 9  manner?
10       A     Oh, they definitely always do.
11       Q     Do you give any thought to that in
12  determining how you're going to act?
13       A     Usually action, reaction is a split second
14  type of a thing.  Many times I don't give forethought to
15  what's being said.
16       Q     Well, you've been telling the Fagoway
17  (phonetic) Indian joke for 30 years according to your
18  testimony yesterday.
19       A     Yes.
20       Q     Do you recall a conference with the principal
21  of the school in which a parent was asking that a
22  student be removed from your class because of such
00091
 1  inappropriate jokes such as that?
 2       A     No, I do not.
 3       Q     We'll get back to that in a minute.  You
 4  don't recall any conference with the principal where a
 5  parent was asking to have her student removed from your
 6  class because of that?
 7       A     Not with me, no.
 8       Q     Not with you.
 9             Well, back to the question about Jeff
10  Saunders.  You don't have any reason that he would
11  intentionally be telling an untruth about you?
12             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
13       A     I can't think how students think.  I don't
14  know.
15  BY MR. SUNTUM:
16       Q     Well, is it just his perception then that you
17  repeatedly made fun of students, called them names,
18  degrading names?
19             MR. RAND:  Objection, competence.
20  BY MR. SUNTUM:
21       Q     Is that an accurate reflection of what you do
22  in your class?
00092
 1       A     No, it's not.
 2       Q     So that's a misperception on his part?
 3       A     Yes.
 4       Q     It's a misperception on his part when he
 5  states that you had a thing against the way he dressed
 6  and called him an inappropriate name, calling the big
 7  pants dresses, et cetera?
 8       A     That was totally inaccurate.
 9       Q     Never called his big pants dresses?
10       A     That's not accurate.
11       Q     You did call his big pants dresses?
12       A     As I reflect upon the situation, when the
13  young man came into my classroom, I had looked back, and
14  it looked as though that he had a skirt on, and I do not
15  believe that I noted that as being a dress.  Students
16  wear clothing to evoke and elicit comments from others.
17       Q     And you accommodated him?
18       A     Yes.
19       Q     By calling his big pants a dress?
20       A     I don't believe that I called it a dress.  I
21  looked at it, and I said, "What are you wearing?"  And I
22  might have made the comment, and I don't remember
00093
 1  exactly the situation nor the comment that I made, that
 2  I thought it might have looked like a dress, but to say
 3  what are you wearing a dress for, no, I did not do that.
 4       Q     Are you suggesting it was a misperception
 5  when he said that you gave his good friend, Joe
 6  Vandercook, a hard time?
 7             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
 8       A     That was his perception.
 9  BY MR. SUNTUM:
10       Q     You didn't make fun of Mr. Vandercook's last
11  name in a derogatory fashion?
12       A     No, I did not make fun of his last name in a
13  derogatory fashion.
14       Q     It's a misperception on Jeff Saunders' part
15  when he says that Joe is a big soccer player and that
16  you were always making jokes on soccer players calling
17  them a soccer faggot?
18       A     You asked me that yesterday, and I answered
19  you.
20       Q     That's a misperception on his part?
21       A     Yes, it is.
22       Q     Hearing you call somebody a soccer faggot is
00094
 1  a misperception as opposed to an untruth?
 2       A     No.  I would not have called him a soccer
 3  faggot.
 4       Q     So he's either being untruthful or there's
 5  just an egregious misperception here?
 6       A     Yes.
 7       Q     Does Jeff Saunders have a problem with
 8  hearing when he says that you used the word "stupid" a
 9  lot?
10       A     I don't use the word "stupid" a lot.
11       Q     Do you use the word "stupid" at all?
12             MR. RAND:  Objection.  Overbroad.
13  BY MR. SUNTUM:
14       Q     Do you use the word "stupid" when referring
15  to your students?
16       A     No, I do not.
17             MR. RAND:  Objection, overbroad.
18  BY MR. SUNTUM:
19       Q     Do you recall the incident at Kelly Park of a
20  baseball game that Jeff Saunders relays?
21       A     Yes, I do.
22       Q     What is your description of that incident?
00095
 1       A     My description of the incident is that
 2  Jeff -- from all instructions, that ball was hit to the
 3  outfield.  Jeff picked up the ball, did not comply to
 4  the instructions that had been taught, procedures that
 5  had been taught, picked the ball up and just threw the
 6  ball into the infield where nobody could handle the
 7  ball.  To me it was an error of gross magnitude.
 8       Q     This is a JV baseball team?
 9       A     It doesn't matter what level.  We're
10  instructing students to play proper baseball.  We're
11  instructing -- I was instructing students proper
12  technique, what to look for.  You do not have time to
13  stop and think when you make a play on a ball.  You pick
14  a ball up.  There is a place for that ball to go.
15             You practice that situation.  You are
16  expected to do that situation.  You're not expected to
17  do the unexpected.  This was totally unexpected, totally
18  off the wall, and as a sophomore with as much baseball
19  playing experience as he supposedly had, it was a
20  terrible mistake.
21       Q     What was your reaction to this terrible
22  mistake?
00096
 1       A     I took him out of the game.
 2       Q     What did you do after you took him out of the
 3  game?
 4       A     Continued on with the game as I always do.
 5       Q     All right.  Wait a minute.  Is this in the
 6  middle of an inning?
 7       A     Yes, it was.
 8       Q     You pulled him out in the middle of an
 9  inning?
10       A     Yes, it was.  Just as I would any other
11  player or a pitcher that had difficulties.
12       Q     Well, what did you do after you pulled him
13  out of the game?  Did you have a talk with him?
14       A     I usually don't have time to talk with
15  players at all in terms --
16       Q     Did you or did you not talk with Jeff
17  Saunders after --
18       A     I do not remember.
19       Q     So his recollection that you just stood there
20  berating him on the bench in front of everyone, is that
21  a misperception?
22       A     Probably.
00097
 1             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
 2  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 3       Q     You don't recall doing that?
 4       A     I do not recall doing that.
 5       Q     Do you think that is something that you're
 6  capable of doing?
 7             MR. RAND:  Objection.
 8  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 9       Q     Is that consistent with your temper?
10             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
11       A     (No response).
12  BY MR. SUNTUM:
13       Q     You can answer the question.
14       A     I'm thinking.  To me the situation was a
15  minor situation.  It was something which needed to be
16  corrected at that period of time.  His perception of the
17  situation was probably grossly overestimated as
18  concerned to what really had transpired.
19             During a game when I'm coaching, I'm
20  constantly teaching.  It's one of the few times when
21  situational things can come up, and to allow one to
22  continue on in doing things which are -- allowing
00098
 1  students to make fielding errors which they should know
 2  better is to me not proper.
 3       Q     So you don't allow them to do it without
 4  consequences?
 5       A     It's not allowing them to do it.  You teach
 6  them to try not to do it.
 7       Q     But when they do, you make sure there's a
 8  consequence?
 9       A     No.  No.  It's not make sure there is a
10  consequence.  When errors happen, you need to very
11  quickly judge the magnitude of the error, judge what was
12  being done, and quickly make a decision as to what to do
13  about that situation.
14       Q     So you have testified just a few minutes ago
15  this was an error of great magnitude?
16       A     Yes, it was.  I took him out of the game.
17       Q     And sat him on the bench?
18       A     Yes.  Well, he came in.  I don't know whether
19  he sat on the bench or not.
20       Q     But now your memory is getting foggy as to
21  whether you walked over there and stood over top of him
22  and started yelling at him?
00099
 1       A     No.  That's not foggy.  I had a game to
 2  coach.
 3       Q     So your testimony is you did not do that?
 4       A     You asked me did I do this.  I said I do not
 5  recollect doing that.
 6       Q     You have no memory as to whether or not you
 7  did do that; is that what your testimony is?
 8             MR. RAND:  Asked and answered.
 9       A     I gave an answer.
10  BY MR. SUNTUM:
11       Q     So you may have done it; you just don't
12  recall?
13       A     No.  I do not recall the totality of the
14  situation.  You're pulling specific situations from
15  hundreds of games that I have coached, and you are
16  trying to have me recall specific instances of something
17  that happened one time.
18             Yes, I remember Jeff Saunders.  Yes, I
19  remember the error.  Yes, I remember pulling him out of
20  the game.  No, I do not remember berating him on the
21  bench.  No, I do not think that I berated him on the
22  bench.
00100
 1             If I talked to Jeff Saunders at all, I talked
 2  to him in such a fashion as to explain to him what the
 3  error was, what was expected during the game, and what I
 4  would feel would be the proper type of play to make as I
 5  would any other player that played ball for me.
 6       Q     But how would you do that, Mr. Hassler, in
 7  what tone of voice?
 8       A     I do not know.
 9       Q     Isn't it your habit and character and
10  personality to do it yelling tone of voice?
11       A     No.
12       Q     No.  So if Jeff Saunders considered it
13  humiliating to be sitting on the bench with his coach
14  standing above him yelling at him for a long period of
15  time about this throw --
16             MR. RAND:  Objection.  There's no --
17  BY MR. SUNTUM:
18       Q     -- that would be a misperception on his part?
19             MR. RAND:  No evidence of any such thing.
20  He's testified that didn't happen.
21  BY MR. SUNTUM:
22       Q     If that was his testimony, it would be a
00101
 1  misperception on his part?
 2       A     I think it's his feeling as to how the
 3  situation transpired.
 4       Q     Jeff says, "There was one game at Kelly
 5  Park."
 6             MR. RAND:  Objection.  We have no evidence
 7  that Jeff is saying anything.
 8  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 9       Q     "I was infield.  A ball came to me.  I threw
10  it home without throwing the cut to third.  He pulled me
11  out, was screaming in my face right in front of
12  everybody.  He was off.  It was awful."  That's a
13  misperception?
14       A     That's his perception.
15       Q     And that's a misperception?
16       A     That's his perception.
17       Q     Well, is your perception consistent with his
18  perception?
19       A     No.
20       Q     No.  Jeff says you always called -- "He
21  always used a lot of names, derogatory names.  He'd call
22  guys on his team girls all the time, other things.  I
00102
 1  found it very offensive."  You call the boys on your
 2  team girls when they make errors?
 3       A     No.
 4       Q     Never use that terminology?
 5       A     I didn't say that.
 6       Q     Have you in the past called people, boys on
 7  your team, girls?
 8       A     Give me a for instance.
 9       Q     I'm asking you have you ever referred to any
10  of the male players on any of your male sports teams as
11  girls?
12       A     In a derogatory sense?
13       Q     In any sense.
14       A     Yes.
15       Q     What sense did you refer to them as girls?
16       A     I can't put it into any kind of context right
17  now, but it was not in a derogatory sense.  It might
18  have been a flippant type of remark like, "Let's go,
19  girls, let's get out in the field."
20       Q     What is the purpose of referring to boys as
21  girls?
22       A     I don't know.
00103
 1       Q     You think that's appropriate, high school
 2  sports coach?
 3       A     I don't see anything wrong with it.
 4       Q     Do you think that reasonable people might
 5  find that objectionable?
 6       A     No.
 7       Q     So anybody who finds boys being referred to
 8  as girls by their high school coach are being
 9  unreasonable if they object to that?
10       A     Yes.
11       Q     Do you know Mrs. Saunders?
12       A     Yes.
13       Q     Do you know she was at that game?
14       A     No.  I do not know Mrs. Saunders per se.  I
15  have met her, I think, twice, but I do not know her.
16  I've not spoken with -- yes, I spoke with Mrs. Saunders
17  once on the telephone.  But other than that, I do not --
18  I have not spoken with her as much.
19       Q     Well, this is her perception of the incident
20  on Kelly Field.
21             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
22  BY MR. SUNTUM:
00104
 1       Q     "When Jeff threw the ball to home that day on
 2  Kelly Field, it was awful.  He was standing in the
 3  dugout and screamed so loudly, you could hear it
 4  anywhere on Kelly Field."  That's referring to you.  "He
 5  pulled Jeff out, sat him on the bench, stopped the game,
 6  and in front of everyone berated him up and down, on and
 7  on for throwing the ball home instead of to third."
 8       A     That's incorrect.
 9       Q     That's a misperception on her part?
10       A     No.  It's not a misperception.  It's an
11  incorrect statement.
12       Q     "Jeff sat there immobile.  He turned beet
13  red.  Then his head dropped into his lap while the
14  screaming continued."  That's incorrect, too?
15       A     Yes.
16       Q     So this is just another parent who has
17  misunderstandings about you as a coach?
18             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
19       A     It's a parent who has a perception of me as a
20  coach.
21  BY MR. SUNTUM:
22       Q     She sat there, Mrs. Saunders, in the stands,
00105
 1  the tears streaming down her face, afraid to do
 2  anything.  Afterward, people came up to her and said how
 3  wrong it was.  "We chose to keep quiet, but I regret it
 4  now.  I'll do anything I can to let people know what he
 5  did and how we feel."
 6             MR. RAND:  Same objection, plus triple
 7  hearsay.
 8  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 9       Q     So that parent has no reason to think you're
10  anything but a great coach either?
11       A     I know that parent doesn't think that I am a
12  great coach.
13       Q     So Mrs. Sutton, Mrs. Wallace, at least three
14  other parents at the end of the 1998 season, now
15  Mrs. Saunders?
16       A     That's four.  What is your point?
17       Q     To see how many more people in the
18  Magruder --
19       A     What is your point?
20       Q     You have claimed Mrs. Sutton has defamed your
21  reputation as a coach.
22       A     Yes.
00106
 1       Q     Are you aware of what your reputation as a
 2  coach is, sir?
 3       A     Yes.
 4       Q     What is it?
 5       A     My reputation as a coach from my peers, from
 6  many parents is that I do an adequate to good job.
 7       Q     Do you have a reputation for yelling and
 8  screaming at players?
 9       A     I have a reputation for being loud.  That is
10  style.  That is something which -- I have discussed this
11  with a few other parents or not parents but a few other
12  coaches after Mrs. Sutton's berating letter to the board
13  of education, and they said that is your style, that is
14  how you coach.  Everybody has style, everybody has a way
15  that they deal with situations, everybody has a way
16  which they coach.
17             When I am coaching, I try to do the best, A,
18  to teach prior to the games, B, during games coach while
19  games are going on.  And do I become involved?  Yes.  Do
20  I become loud?  Yes.  Do I berate and berate the kids?
21  I don't think so.
22       Q     And it's a misperception on the part of the
00107
 1  kids and their parents that they think you do?
 2       A     I am working for the best interests of the
 3  kids 100 percent of the time.
 4       Q     And the parents have no reason to object if
 5  their children are subjected to that type of coaching
 6  style?
 7       A     If parents have an objection, they have a
 8  right to, A, contact me, talk to me about it, and on
 9  instances parents have contacted me and talked to me
10  about it.  On other instances sometimes the
11  administration is brought into it, and we talk through
12  the situation, and on other instances, the parents, the
13  administration and I have gotten together.
14       Q     Do parents have a right to complain to the
15  principal and the school board?
16       A     Parents have a right to complain on any given
17  situation at any given time, and they do so, about any
18  teacher, about any coach, anything they feel that they
19  have a complaint about.  We have an open-door policy.
20             As a matter of fact, when there are
21  difficulties with teachers, with students, both the
22  parents and the teachers and the students are encouraged
00108
 1  to express their wishes and encouraged to talk it
 2  through and to confront the situations and not to just
 3  shovel them out the back door and say that's just the
 4  way it's going to be.
 5       Q     But if you raise too much of a stink,
 6  actually go public with it, then you get sued for
 7  defamation; is that your response?
 8             MR. RAND:  Objection.
 9       A     (No response).
10  BY MR. SUNTUM:
11       Q     Do you know Stacey Edliss (phonetic)?
12       A     Yes.  I do know Stacey Edliss.
13       Q     What sport did she play for you?
14       A     Volleyball.
15       Q     She says, "I came home complaining every day.
16  He'd cuss at us while we were playing, tell us we were
17  no good, put us down all the time.  He did it the
18  majority of the time."  Is that a misperception on her
19  part again?
20             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
21       A     Yes.
22  BY MR. SUNTUM:
00109
 1       Q     Did the girls on your volleyball team object
 2  to the Spandex shorts you forced them to wear?
 3       A     No.
 4       Q     None of them raised an issue?
 5       A     I believe a couple did raise the issue.
 6       Q     How did you respond to it?
 7       A     I had two sets of shorts.  I had a set of
 8  Spandex shorts, and I had a set of other shorts, and
 9  they were allowed to choose either pair of shorts to
10  wear during game situations.
11       Q     So you're suggesting they had the option not
12  to wear the Spandex?
13       A     Yes, they did.  It was my suggestion to wear
14  the Spandex under the larger shorts, and if they wished
15  to, to take the larger shorts off during game situations
16  to give them more freedom of movement.
17       Q     It's your testimony you expressed to them and
18  made it clear to them they had the option not to wear
19  Spandex?
20       A     Not only expressed it to them.  I gave them
21  two pair of shorts to wear.
22       Q     Do you have any reason to believe that Stacey
00110
 1  Edliss wouldn't be telling the truth if she testified
 2  that, "We complained with each other's parents all the
 3  time.  A lot of us didn't want to play because he was
 4  there.  We complained all year.  He made us feel like we
 5  couldn't play."
 6       A     I disagree with that statement.
 7             MR. RAND:  Objection.
 8  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 9       Q     This would be another whole batch of other
10  parents that would be hearing these same complaints from
11  their children about you?
12       A     I disagree with that statement.
13       Q     So you think she is not telling the truth
14  when she says that the players complained to each
15  other's parents all the time about you?
16       A     Yes.
17             MR. RAND:  Objection.
18  BY MR. SUNTUM:
19       Q     Do you know Toni Phillips?
20       A     Yes.
21       Q     What sport did she play for you?
22       A     Girls volleyball.
00111
 1       Q     Do you have any reason to suggest that she
 2  wouldn't be truthful when she's testifying about you?
 3       A     Again, it's student perceptions.
 4       Q     So if she says you were constantly yelling,
 5  using foul language, were mean, no one liked you, that's
 6  a misperception on her part?
 7       A     Yes, it is.
 8             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
 9  BY MR. SUNTUM:
10       Q     Do you know Robin Zacalick (phonetic)?
11       A     I remember the name vaguely.
12       Q     Was she a student in one of your math
13  classes?
14       A     I don't remember.  I remember the name.  I
15  don't remember except for what I read in the notes here.
16       Q     Do you have any reason to think that she
17  would be lying about you?
18       A     Yes.
19       Q     Why?
20       A     Because one of the notices in there was that
21  she was happy that I was -- I had a heart attack and had
22  to leave teaching for a period of time when, in fact, my
00112
 1  heart attack had occurred in the middle of the summer,
 2  July the 8th, at which time she was not a student and I
 3  was not teaching.  And throughout the entire fall of
 4  that year I was in the hospital almost on a monthly
 5  basis for at least a week each month.
 6       Q     So why does that give you reason to believe
 7  she'd lie about you?
 8       A     I don't believe that Robin really thought
 9  through this.  The letter that was e-mailed to almost
10  every one of these students was e-mailed in such a
11  fashion as to evoke any and all kind of negative
12  comments about me that these students could conjure up
13  or think about or commiserate on.
14             And as students go through, many times they
15  exaggerate situations, many times they blow these
16  situations out of proportion.  Many times the things
17  that they talk about have shades of truth in them but
18  many shades of not telling the truth.
19             Students have a way about dealing with
20  situations which are extremely difficult to deal with.
21  Administrators are constantly under that kind of or
22  constantly aware of that kind of knowledge, and it is
00113
 1  many times difficult to try to withdraw from students
 2  any kind of accurate description about what actually
 3  transpired.  Many of the situations you talked about
 4  were reactions to something.
 5             Now, what happened prior to that in the
 6  classroom?  What actually transpired that would have
 7  brought about this reaction?  The way Mrs. Sutton put it
 8  forth was I just out of the blue threw all this stuff at
 9  these kids and just accept it or don't accept it.
10  That's the way it's going to be.  When, in fact, many of
11  them were reactions to situations, things that happened
12  in the classroom.
13       Q     Are you suggesting that if an e-mail went out
14  asking for students to respond back with comments about
15  all teachers at Magruder, a student would come back and
16  lambaste them all?
17       A     That's highly probable.
18             MR. RAND:  Objection.
19  BY MR. SUNTUM:
20       Q     So you just discount all of these?
21       A     I don't discount them, but I take a look at
22  them for the validity of the truth.
00114
 1             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
 2  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 3       Q     Do you know whether or not Robin Zacalick
 4  even got the e-mail from Sam Taneous (phonetic)?
 5       A     No, I do not know.
 6       Q     Are you suggesting that her response and her
 7  testimony set forth in these interrogatory answers is a
 8  reflection --
 9       A     I don't remember Robin Zacalick.  I already
10  testified to that.  Except for the name, I don't
11  remember what she looks like.  The only reason I can
12  even put it close to anything I've had was during that
13  time of extreme difficulty for me, she obviously was in
14  my classroom because she stated she was there.
15       Q     So if she testifies that you were awful; you
16  belittle kids every day; you made everyone feel like
17  they were stupid; he'd tell you to put something on the
18  board, then when you did, he'd be sarcastic and loud and
19  embarrass you and say something like, what, are you
20  kidding me, that's a misperception on her part?
21       A     Yes.
22       Q     Do you know Emily Ewe?
00115
 1       A     I remember the name.  I don't remember the
 2  young lady.
 3       Q     Do you have any reason to think she wouldn't
 4  be truthful in responding --
 5             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
 6       A     I don't remember the young lady.
 7  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 8       Q     So it's a misperception on her part if she
 9  testifies --
10       A     I don't remember the young lady.
11       Q     It wouldn't be accurate that you made crude,
12  crass jokes, lots of kids failed?
13       A     Not true.
14       Q     Do you remember Joellen Truelove O'Dell, a
15  teacher?
16       A     Yes.
17       Q     Do you remember the incident she reflects?
18       A     No, I do not.  I think it's highly
19  inappropriate to take a situation at a faculty gathering
20  at the end of the school year and make anything of that.
21             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
22  BY MR. SUNTUM:
00116
 1       Q     So it would be appropriate then if what she
 2  says happened happened, it's just between faculty, it
 3  doesn't demonstrate a character trait of yours?
 4       A     Exactly right.
 5       Q     So you don't have a character trait of crass,
 6  crude sexual jokes and innuendos?
 7       A     No.
 8       Q     You don't call people soccer faggots and tell
 9  the boys they're wearing dresses?
10       A     I already answered that, and I object to the
11  fact you continually keep asking that question.
12       Q     Do you know Adam Davis?
13       A     Yes, I do know Adam Davis.
14       Q     How do you know Adam Davis?
15       A     Adam Davis was a student of mine.  He
16  helped -- I think it was a year or two prior to my
17  teaching him, he helped me with mulch sales.
18       Q     Do you have any reason to think Adam Davis
19  would be lying about you?
20       A     Yes.
21       Q     Why?
22       A     Adam Davis has difficulties sometimes in
00117
 1  telling the truth.
 2       Q     He's just not a credible person in your
 3  opinion?
 4       A     No.  I do not believe he is a credible
 5  person.
 6       Q     So if he says at Magruder High School, you
 7  are known as one of the worst teachers in the school,
 8  that's just not true?
 9             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
10       A     I agree.  That is not true.
11  BY MR. SUNTUM:
12       Q     So if he is attempting to reflect your
13  reputation as a teacher among the students at Magruder,
14  that's an inaccurate reflection of your reputation?
15       A     Yes, it is.
16       Q     When he says in his precalculus class you
17  would repeatedly insult his friend Jen Cauley, and
18  making blond jokes and saying that she and I were
19  personally involved, that's not true either?
20       A     There is, again, as I stated earlier, a
21  scintilla of truth in everything the kids say, but there
22  is many misperceptions and miscommunications as to how
00118
 1  they state it.  This young gentleman has an ability to
 2  very easily try to bend things in his favor on many
 3  situations, and he has done so in the classroom or in
 4  that classroom.
 5       Q     Did you make blond jokes about Jen Cauley?
 6       A     About Jen Cauley, no.
 7       Q     What was the relationship with the blond
 8  jokes and Jen Cauley?
 9       A     The same as we talked about yesterday.
10       Q     You'd make them in her presence?
11       A     Jen Cauley is a blond-haired young lady,
12  fairly intelligent young lady, a very nice young lady.
13  I had taught Jen Cauley for -- I think this was my
14  second year.  My blond jokes to her would be no more
15  different than maybe her fat jokes to me.
16       Q     So Jen Cauley -- Mr. Adam Davis wasn't being
17  untruthful when he commented that you commonly referred
18  to a Jewish classmate of his, last name Klein, as
19  Kleinstine?
20             MR. RAND:  Asked and answered.  Same
21  objection.
22  BY MR. SUNTUM:
00119
 1       Q     That was accurate, correct?
 2       A     We went over that yesterday.  There was
 3  nothing derogatory about the comment nor was there
 4  anything derogatory meant by the comment.
 5       Q     And I guess he would not be being accurate in
 6  his reflection when he states that you would frequently
 7  mock -- that there was a student in the classroom from
 8  Africa still struggling a little bit with his accent and
 9  you would frequently mock him by muttering nonsense?
10       A     Is this from Adam Davis?
11       Q     Yes.
12       A     Yes.  That's inaccurate.  Yes.  He was not in
13  that class.
14       Q     Do you know Benjamin Simon?
15       A     I recollect the name.
16       Q     Do you have any reason to suggest that he
17  wouldn't be truthful in talking about you?
18       A     I don't know what Ben was thinking.  I don't
19  know.
20       Q     Again, that's a misperception on his part if
21  he says Mr. Hassler often made sexual comments and
22  degrading remarks during class?
00120
 1             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
 2       A     I concur with my attorney.
 3  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 4       Q     Well, your attorney can object.  You need to
 5  answer the question.
 6       A     I object.
 7             MR. RAND:  No.  Answer the question, Paul.
 8             THE WITNESS:  Oh, answer the question?
 9             MR. RAND:  Answer the question.
10             THE WITNESS:  I don't understand the
11  question.  Please rephrase it.
12  BY MR. SUNTUM:
13       Q     Is it a misperception on his part if he
14  testifies that Mr. Hassler often makes sexual comments
15  and degrading remarks during class?
16       A     I think all of these are covering the same
17  vein, they seem to be elicited from the original letter
18  which requested information from these students, and it
19  was a very leading letter.  It was asking students to
20  make comments on all the things which I had done in the
21  classroom.
22       Q     Was it misperception or untruth when Ben
00121
 1  Simon states that another time in class Mr. Hassler
 2  picked up the newspaper and saw an article on the Wonder
 3  Bra and spent the entire class speaking of how if any
 4  woman should have to use this thing, they aren't really
 5  a woman and so on?
 6             MR. RAND:  Asked and answered.
 7       A     That is a total lie.
 8  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 9       Q     Total lie?
10       A     Yes, it is.
11       Q     What is the five-on-two wrestling move?
12       A     There is no five-on-two wrestling move, and I
13  object to the insinuation made by Mrs. Sutton in her
14  interrogatories, and I object to the reference that I
15  teach illegal moves.  A five-on-two is a wrestling joke
16  whereas students grab ahold of the other wrestler's
17  testicles in different situations.  It is probably one
18  of the biggest jokes -- well, is probably one of the
19  biggest jokes that has ever come about from wrestling.
20             That goes along with the joke concerning --
21  oh, what am I thinking about?  Well, I can't think of it
22  right now.  But it goes along with teaching things and
00122
 1  so on.  Both students in there implied that they had
 2  heard from other people that I teach this technique.
 3  They implied that I demonstrated the technique.
 4  Mrs. Sutton stated that I teach illegal moves when
 5  Mrs. Sutton never ever stepped into my wrestling room,
 6  which I had been coaching that for 18 years at Magruder
 7  High School.
 8             Mrs. Sutton never attended a softball
 9  practice which I had.  She wouldn't know anything about
10  what transpired one way or the other on any of these
11  situations that she talks about, yet she expressed her
12  position as being the authority on everything that I
13  have ever done.
14       Q     What situations in wrestling do you grab the
15  testicles of the other wrestler?
16       A     There are no situations in wrestling that you
17  would grab the testicles.  It is a joke.  It is the type
18  of thing whereas, you know, a kid will be going for a
19  switch, and you would tell the kid look over to five on
20  two.  Kids at bench would do that.  It is something
21  which is joked about from little wrestling on up.
22             One of the biggest difficulties that we have
00123
 1  in wrestling is the fact that you put your hands in
 2  places where normally you don't want to put your hands,
 3  but there are wrestling moves that require you to be in
 4  those areas, and it is not -- it is not a technique
 5  which I would, A, teach, B, demonstrate, and C, even
 6  have a knowledge of having kids going out and doing
 7  that.
 8             If I saw kids doing that on my own team, I
 9  would do similar to what I did with Jeff Saunders.  I
10  would pull them off the match.  I would throw the towel
11  in because I think it is such an abhorrent type of a
12  move, but it is not a move.  It is a joke.  It has been
13  and will be a joke, and kids would yell out and
14  everybody would laugh about that.  It is not a
15  technique.
16       Q     Do you think that's a common joke in the
17  wrestling industry?
18       A     Wrestling industry.  This is not an industry.
19  This is a sport.
20       Q     You're saying that that is a common joke in
21  the wrestling sport?
22       A     Yes, it is.
00124
 1       Q     Do the five on two?
 2       A     Yes, it is.
 3       Q     And that's something that would be joked
 4  about in your wrestling practices on a regular basis?
 5       A     Yes, it is.  Usually if it was yelled as an
 6  instruction, it would mean get your hands in the crotch
 7  area.  It doesn't mean grab ahold of anything.
 8       Q     Do you know Stephen Chase?
 9       A     Oh, God.  I've been trying to think who he
10  was, what he looked like.  No.  I don't remember.
11       Q     So you don't have any reason --
12             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
13  BY MR. SUNTUM:
14       Q     -- to say that he'd tell any untruths about
15  you?
16       A     I couldn't tell.  I don't know.  There -- I
17  mean, I teach 150 students a year times 30 years.
18  There's 4,500 students at a minimum I've been in contact
19  with, and that's not even including wrestling in this
20  school or other schools teaching summer school.  I
21  couldn't remember where I would run into him.
22       Q     So you think he is an exception when he
00125
 1  testifies that he used to dread seventh period every day
 2  because Mr. Hassler made him and other students feel
 3  uncomfortable, that you made certain racist and sexist
 4  comments and hardly taught the curriculum, instead you
 5  told defensive jokes the whole period?
 6       A     That's a lie.
 7       Q     That you went off on long tangents about your
 8  own life and political views which he found very
 9  offensive?
10       A     On long tangents.  I constantly go off on
11  tangents in the classroom.  Long ones, what, what is
12  considered long?  Two minutes?  Three minutes?  No.  His
13  perception about what I did in my classroom just from
14  reading what he is saying there and so on is totally
15  inaccurate, not a good representation of what I've done
16  in my classroom.
17       Q     Do you know Nitin Anand?
18       A     Uh-huh.
19       Q     How do you know him?
20       A     Nitin was a student in one of my classes last
21  year.
22       Q     Do you have any reason to believe that he
00126
 1  wouldn't be truthful in reflecting upon you as a
 2  teacher?
 3             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
 4       A     Same as I stated with other situations.
 5  Students' perceptions about what goes on in the
 6  classroom, what we talk about, what we do in the
 7  classroom, many times it takes on a lot of different
 8  meaning and what you can draw from a thing.  We have
 9  snapshots here of situations.  We don't have the entire
10  look at situations.  What brought about the discussions,
11  what are brought about the different things and so on.
12  BY MR. SUNTUM:
13       Q     So is it misperception on Mr. Anand's part
14  when he testifies that in the beginning of the semester
15  he viewed you as a jovial yet somehow caustic person,
16  someone with a sense of humor who knew how to tell a
17  good bar joke, but he realized after about a semester
18  that that is not a quality that is beneficial when
19  teaching, that your jokes became increasingly harsh and
20  bitter, that most of the class laughed and encouraged
21  you, but it was easy to spot those of us who were
22  uncomfortable, and he would read off a printout of
00127
 1  blatantly sexist jokes that he received through the
 2  e-mail?  That's all a misperception?
 3       A     That's his perception.  Is it misperception?
 4  We all have perceptions on how we view people.
 5       Q     And your reputation as a teacher is based
 6  upon other people's perception of you, is it not?
 7       A     Yes.
 8       Q     Do you have any reason to believe that these
 9  perceptions as reflected are inaccurate?
10             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
11       A     Yes.
12  BY MR. SUNTUM:
13       Q     Do you know Alethia Willis?
14       A     Yes, I do.  I know of her.  Alethia tried out
15  for my volleyball team one summer and decided not to
16  stay with the team.
17       Q     Do you know why?
18       A     She told me very pointedly she didn't like
19  the way I coached.  She didn't like the yelling and
20  screaming.  She didn't like the things that I did.
21       Q     This is another player that didn't like your
22  yelling and screaming?
00128
 1       A     That's quite obvious.  I mean, everybody has
 2  choices.
 3       Q     But if you want to play a sport that you're
 4  coaching at Magruder, you have to put up with it?
 5       A     That's not a very accurate way to put it.  As
 6  a matter of fact, it's a very -- I find it very
 7  demeaning, putting up with it.
 8       Q     Well, how about the students that are being
 9  subjected to it, do you think they find it demeaning?
10       A     It's not being subjective.  Right away you're
11  putting me in a bad light and trying to say that my
12  technique of coaching was totally out of order.  We have
13  a very, very unique system of checks and balances.  Our
14  principal does the hiring.  He does the hiring based on
15  previous knowledge.
16             I had coached girls volleyball prior to this
17  time, I think from 1980, I think I started, through
18  about 1988, and then I took a leave of absence for about
19  four years and then -- actually it was about six years,
20  and then I had applied for a football job at the school,
21  and the gentleman who was going to be coaching football
22  wanted his staff on duty there.
00129
 1             Well, the only way -- one of the ways of not
 2  having me on his staff because he had people that were
 3  in his mode, you get cliques of coaches together that
 4  want to come in, he would have had to take me had I not
 5  been able to find another job.  Well, I had applied for
 6  the girls volleyball job, and I got the girls volleyball
 7  job.  At that period of time the girls volleyball team
 8  was in complete shambles.  There was no instruction on
 9  volleyball.
10             I was hired to take over the job.  I took
11  over the job in that summer, and we had a -- one of the
12  more successful seasons that Magruder High School had
13  had since I had left the sport in the late '80s.
14       Q     Alethia Willis played for two years before
15  you took over, didn't she?
16       A     I know nothing about what Alethia Willis did.
17  I never went to volleyball games, attended any of their
18  practices.  I don't know anything about what Alethia
19  Willis did.
20       Q     In Answers to Interrogatories, she stated, "I
21  graduated 1997.  I was on Magruder's volleyball team for
22  two years.  In the third year, my junior year, they
00130
 1  appointed Hassler coach.  I quit after two weeks."
 2       A     Correct.
 3             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
 4  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 5       Q     "After two weeks of constant degrading
 6  comments about women and the requirement that we had to
 7  wear those Spandex shorts and the disgusting things he
 8  said about them, I decided that if this is what being on
 9  the team involves, I don't want it.  I tried to get the
10  other girls to join me, but they didn't want to give up
11  volleyball."
12       A     That is totally inaccurate.
13       Q     That is inaccurate?
14       A     That is totally.  If we're going to put it on
15  a level of truth, I'd give it a zero.  There is no truth
16  to that.
17       Q     The fact of the matter is she quit after two
18  weeks?
19       A     That was her choice.
20       Q     And she told you she couldn't take your
21  yelling and screaming?
22       A     She'd tell me she didn't like my yelling,
00131
 1  yes, she didn't like coaches that yelled.  And I told
 2  her that was her -- if that's the way she felt about it,
 3  that was fine.
 4       Q     Well, if Genny Maricle wanted to play
 5  softball, she had to put up with the yelling and
 6  screaming?
 7             MR. RAND:  Objection.
 8  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 9       Q     Either put up with the yelling and screaming
10  or don't play?
11       A     No.  You're making it sound as though my
12  style of coaching is consistently yelling and screaming.
13  You're making it sound as though I am a bad guy all the
14  time.
15       Q     When Alethia Willis came to you and said she
16  couldn't take your yelling, did you suggest to her, I'll
17  try not to yell as much or did you say, take it or leave
18  it?
19       A     No.  She came in and told me, "I am not
20  playing volleyball."  I said, "Fine."
21       Q     She told you she wanted to tell you why,
22  didn't she?
00132
 1       A     Yes.
 2       Q     Describe that conversation.
 3       A     I can't.  You asked me -- the only thing I
 4  have recollection of is what she wrote there, which I
 5  disagree with.
 6       Q     Well, here is her recollection of that
 7  conversation:  "I told my father, and he was going to
 8  come to the school, and he'd have gotten into the same
 9  mess that you're in, referring to Mrs. Sutton.  I was
10  young and stupid and wanted to be a big girl and handle
11  it myself".
12             "I went to Mr. Hassler in the math office.
13  With the whole department there, I wouldn't be alone
14  with him.  And I said, 'Coach, I need to tell you I'm
15  quitting,' and he said something derogatory and started
16  to walk out.  And I said, 'I want to tell you why.  You
17  made some comments about the shorts that were demeaning,
18  and you're forcing us to wear them without making other
19  arrangements if we're uncomfortable.'  And he started
20  yelling at me and telling me that I was quitting because
21  I didn't have what it takes, that I was a loser, and
22  that I just couldn't cut it."
00133
 1             "His arm was up on the door post, and he just
 2  kept yelling.  There were other teachers standing
 3  around.  I don't know all of them, but I know
 4  Mrs. McGinn was standing right there."  Is that
 5  accurate?
 6       A     No, it's not.  As a matter of fact, it's a
 7  gross inaccuracy.  My feeling is I would never do
 8  something like that to the students there.  As a matter
 9  of fact, I was getting up to leave to go to the
10  classroom when she came in very late in the morning, and
11  bells had rung for me to go on to class, so for me to
12  stand around there and have any kind of a conversation
13  with her, I didn't have the time to do it nor would I.
14       Q     So you're suggesting you just walked out on
15  it then?
16       A     I don't remember specifically what happened.
17       Q     But you remember that her perception of what
18  happened is inaccurate?
19       A     Oh, I know it's inaccurate.
20             MR. RAND:  Same objection.
21             THE WITNESS:  It's a narrative, a beautifully
22  written story, but it didn't happen.
00134
 1  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 2       Q     Let me direct your attention to Ms. Sutton's
 3  letter that is attached to your complaint.  In paragraph
 4  number one, do you contend that paragraph is inaccurate
 5  and untruthful, the one numbered one, the third
 6  paragraph?
 7       A     Yes.
 8       Q     It starts off, "In the months before the
 9  softball season began, in violation of Montgomery County
10  Public Schools' written policy, Mr. Hassler organized
11  and ran a softball clinic."  Did you organize and run a
12  softball clinic?
13       A     With a group of other parents, yes.
14       Q     Was it determined that that was in violation
15  of school policy?
16             MR. RAND:  Objection.
17       A     Yes, it was.
18  BY MR. SUNTUM:
19       Q     Did you actively recruit team members and
20  prospective team members to register for the clinic?
21       A     I actively recruited anybody who wished to go
22  to the clinic.
00135
 1       Q     Including team members?
 2       A     Anybody.  There were no team members.  I was
 3  not the coach of the team.  I had no team members.  I
 4  had no team per se.
 5       Q     Are you suggesting you weren't the coach of
 6  the team, appointed the coach?
 7       A     Appointed coach, yes.  Active coach, no.
 8       Q     So you're drawing a technicality?
 9       A     No.  I'm not drawing a technicality.
10       Q     You knew you were going to be coach, correct?
11       A     I had no team.  As of March 1st, I was going
12  to be taking over, and I thought that working at a
13  clinic to the benefit of the students of the Derwood
14  area to anybody in the Derwood -- actually anybody that
15  wanted to attend it would be a plus.  I am an organizer.
16       Q     You made daily announcements of the clinic
17  over the public address system?
18       A     Daily announcements.  Prior to the clinic
19  there was announcements made that there would be a
20  clinic, a softball clinic, going on during the months of
21  January and February.
22       Q     And you had fliers for the clinic on your
00136
 1  classroom door?
 2       A     Yes.
 3       Q     That's accurate?
 4       A     Yes.
 5       Q     And you directly confronted students and told
 6  them about the clinic?
 7       A     I don't like the word "confronted."  That is
 8  a gross overexaggeration of a confrontation.  A
 9  confrontation to me is me coming up and grabbing hold of
10  you and demanding you to do something.  I informed
11  students that there was going to be a clinic.  Is that a
12  confrontation?  I guess it depends upon how you define
13  "confrontation."
14       Q     But you would pull students aside on a
15  one-on-one basis and ask them whether they were
16  attending the clinic?
17       A     I would pull students aside on a one-on-one
18  basis and ask them whether they were attending it.  I
19  would inform them of the clinic.  I would see students
20  in the hallway, students that I knew that played in the
21  summer league and so on with my daughters.  I would talk
22  to them.  I would give them information on the clinic.
00137
 1  I was trying to draw and make some support for the
 2  softball program which was in total shambles at the
 3  school.
 4       Q     I'm trying to identify what you contend in
 5  this paragraph is inaccurate, Mr. Hassler.
 6       A     "His recruiting consisted of direct
 7  confrontations with students."
 8       Q     So the confrontations --
 9       A     That is an inaccurate statement.  There was
10  never a confrontation.
11       Q     But you do agree that you would pull students
12  aside one on one and ask them if they were attending the
13  clinic?
14       A     No.  That is your interpretation.  I didn't
15  say that.
16       Q     At the preseason softball meeting held at
17  Magruder for the school's varsity and junior varsity
18  team, a registration sheet was attached to each
19  registration for the school team?
20       A     That's accurate, sure.  And I think there was
21  another one or two clinic sheets attached also.
22       Q     Girls were told that selection to the team
00138
 1  was highly competitive; is that true?
 2       A     I had a good feeling that it would be.
 3       Q     And the message was made clear if you wanted
 4  to make the team, you better register for the six-week
 5  clinic?
 6       A     That's inaccurate.
 7       Q     That's inaccurate?
 8       A     Extremely inaccurate.
 9       Q     Is it possible that was the impression that
10  you left with the students?
11       A     No.  Not at all.
12       Q     That would be a misimpression on their part?
13       A     Yes.  It would be.
14       Q     "The fee for the clinic went to Mr. Hassler."
15       A     I collected the monies for the clinic.  It
16  was a 20 dollar charge, which is extremely inexpensive
17  for clinics.  The 20 dollar charge basically went to
18  cover the costs of renting the building, renting the
19  facilities.
20       Q     I thought the fee for renting the building
21  came from other funds?
22       A     Never.  Never.  You're not allowed to use
00139
 1  funds to do so.  I had to write personal checks.  I had
 2  to sign the building out.
 3             (Exhibit Number 6 was marked for
 4  identification and was retained by counsel.)
 5  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 6       Q     Let me show you what's been marked as
 7  Deposition Exhibit Number 6, which is a copy of your
 8  letter to Mr. Nori in response to Ms. Sutton's letter,
 9  and I direct your attention to the fourth paragraph,
10  which begins page one, paragraph two, "Monies were
11  collected by myself, my wife and other parent sponsors
12  of the clinic.  The gymnasium was rented by independent
13  funds from the ICB."  What is that?
14       A     To the ICB.  This was a draft, something not
15  meant for publishing.
16       Q     Are you suggesting that's inaccurate, that
17  statement there, that the gymnasium was rented by
18  independent funds from the ICB?
19       A     Yes.  That is inaccurate.  As I stated, this
20  was a draft that I had given to Mr. Nori after
21  Mrs. Sutton's thing.  Where is that at?  I can't even
22  find that.
00140
 1       Q     Page one, paragraph two.
 2       A     No.  It should not have been from the ICB.
 3  It should have been to the ICB.
 4       Q     What are the independent funds?
 5       A     Those were outside funds, the funds that I
 6  collected.  I fronted it with my own personal funds, so
 7  what you have to do is you have to fill out a building
 8  use form, attach a check to the building use form, and
 9  pay for the facilities prior to using it for every event
10  that you have in the school.  If it's an in-school
11  event, I have to pay for the use of building, and
12  there's within sell of fees.
13             If it's an outside organization, I have to
14  sign out building and provide for insurance and
15  everything else for the participants in whatever is
16  happening, whatever is going on there.
17       Q     Did you ever provide an accounting for the
18  funds --
19       A     I'm not required to.
20       Q     So you never did?
21       A     No.  I lost money.  I brought in about
22  $1,000, and I spent about 1,500.
00141
 1       Q     So in paragraph number one, your contention
 2  of the inaccuracies then is the use of the term
 3  "confrontation"?
 4       A     Yes.
 5       Q     And the suggestion that the message was clear
 6  that if you wanted to make the team, you better register
 7  for the clinic?
 8       A     Yes.
 9       Q     Those are the two points in that paragraph --
10       A     Yes.  I would never use that as a condition
11  for making the team.
12       Q     The remainer of the paragraph is accurate?
13             MR. RAND:  In accordance with his testimony.
14       A     Well, I don't like the way the first sentence
15  was written.  "In the months before the softball season
16  began, in violation of MCPS written policy, Mr. Hassler
17  organized and ran a softball clinic and actively and
18  aggressively recruited members and prospective team
19  members to register for the clinics."
20             There was no team.  All of them were
21  prospective team members.  I was in direct control of
22  putting together a team that season.  And in violation
00142
 1  of MCPS written policy, I still am of the opinion that I
 2  was not in violation of policy, but that's my opinion.
 3  I lost that on two fronts.
 4             I lost that on a local appeal, and I lost it
 5  on the appeal to the state, and I pattern my clinic
 6  after other clinics which I had taken my daughter to
 7  which were sponsored by other schools and by other
 8  organizations in the -- in Montgomery County.
 9  BY MR. SUNTUM:
10       Q     Paragraph number two, "Paul Hassler's wife
11  collected the money for the clinic."  True or not true?
12       A     Sometimes.
13       Q     Sometimes true?
14       A     Yeah.  She didn't check it all the time.  She
15  collected it whenever she was available to be there.
16       Q     "The clinic was held in the school gymnasiums
17  and cafeteria."  True or not true?
18       A     It was first held in the rear gymnasium, and
19  when I had more people than I could handle, I had to
20  expand the facilities so the kids would not get hurt.
21       Q     So that paragraph number two is correct?
22       A     With the editorial part there that my wife
00143
 1  collected the money for the clinic, no.  My wife
 2  assisted.  My wife -- because my wife helps me out with
 3  things.  I have four daughters, and they were all
 4  attending the clinic, and she was there.
 5       Q     Paragraph number three, "Mr. Hassler ran each
 6  clinic session, coaching his players in the preseason."
 7       A     That's inaccurate.
 8       Q     What is inaccurate about it?
 9       A     I wasn't there for all the clinic sessions.
10  I was there for most of them.  "Coaching his players in
11  the preseason," I didn't have any players.  I didn't
12  know who my players were going to be.  Did some of my
13  players attend?  Yes.  Did they benefit from the clinic?
14  Yes.  Was it an illegal clinic?  I disagree with that.
15  It was a clinic learning how to throw a softball, catch
16  a softball and bunt and hit a softball.
17       Q     "14 Magruder team members enrolled in and
18  attended the clinic."  True or not true?
19       A     I don't know.
20       Q     Fact is more like 28?
21       A     That's not true.
22       Q     Well, in your Answers to Interrogatories when
00144
 1  you were requested to identify the players that
 2  attended, you only listed seven.  You realize that?
 3       A     That's what I recollected.  First off, I only
 4  had I think 15 members on the team, so 28 would be
 5  totally inaccurate.
 6       Q     Well, there's a JV team and a varsity team,
 7  were there not?
 8       A     I am not responsible for the JV team.  I have
 9  nothing to do with that whatsoever.
10       Q     Well, are you contending that paragraph four
11  is inaccurate and defamatory?
12       A     No.  I just said it was inaccurate.
13       Q     You're denying that there were 14 members of
14  the team?
15       A     I don't know how many team members.
16       Q     Well, if you don't know how many, why are you
17  saying it's inaccurate?
18       A     Because I noted from what little records that
19  I could put together that there were seven that I could
20  substantiate that did attend.
21             (Exhibit Number 7 was marked for
22  identification and was attached to the deposition
00145
 1  transcript.)
 2  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 3       Q     Let me show you what's been marked as
 4  Deposition Exhibit Number 7 and ask you if that is a
 5  roster of the participant in the clinic.
 6       A     This is some of them, yes.
 7       Q     That's not even all of them, is it?
 8       A     Oh, there were a lot of kids that signed up
 9  after the fact from all different grades, anywhere from
10  third grade up to 12th grade, anywhere from all over
11  Montgomery County, et cetera.
12       Q     Go down this partial roster and identify
13  those that played varsity softball.
14       A     I think they're already checked there.
15       Q     Are you suggesting that any that are not
16  checked there did not play varsity softball?
17             Let me exchange rosters with you and ask you
18  these questions.  Did Megan Barnes play varsity
19  softball?
20       A     Can I see that?  Go ahead.
21       Q     Did Megan Barnes play varsity softball?
22       A     For me, yes.
00146
 1       Q     Did Meredith Drye play varsity softball?
 2       A     No.  She didn't play for me.
 3             MR. RAND:  Who?
 4  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 5       Q     Did she play at all?
 6             MR. RAND:  Excuse me, Counsel.  What's the
 7  name?
 8             THE WITNESS:  D-R-Y-E, Drye.  No.
 9  BY MR. SUNTUM:
10       Q     Tracy Hencilman, did she play varsity
11  softball?
12       A     Yes.
13       Q     Karen Jensfeld?
14       A     No.  In 1997, the year of the clinic, no, she
15  did not.
16       Q     Did she play varsity softball at any time?
17       A     Yes.  Last year.  Well, she was on the team.
18  She had extreme difficulty throughout the entire season.
19       Q     Did Jennifer Kelly play varsity softball?
20       A     No.  She played JV softball the one year.
21  She started off this year but because of physical
22  disabilities had to quit.
00147
 1       Q     Anna Crebbs played varsity softball?
 2             MR. RAND:  What is the name?
 3             MR. SUNTUM:  Anna Crebbs.
 4       A     In the year 1997, yes.  Prior to that, I
 5  don't know.
 6  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 7       Q     Genny Maricle played varsity softball?
 8       A     In the year 1997.  Prior to that, I don't
 9  know.
10       Q     Shayna Pupa play varsity softball?
11       A     Yes.  Prior to that, I don't know.
12       Q     Rene Sexton play varsity softball?
13       A     No.  Not that year.
14       Q     Are you suggesting she didn't play varsity
15  softball?
16       A     That year she did not.
17       Q     What year did she play?
18       A     This past year.
19       Q     Kelly Simpson?
20       A     No, she did not.  Only a ninth grader.
21       Q     When you say this past year, what are you
22  referring to?
00148
 1       A     1998, this past season.
 2       Q     Sarah Simpson, did she play varsity softball?
 3       A     No.  Kelly and Sarah were twins.  They were
 4  both ninth graders, and they both played JV ball.
 5       Q     Allison Stang, did she play softball?
 6       A     Yes, she did.  She was a ninth grader.  That
 7  was her first year.
 8       Q     Beth Storke play softball?
 9       A     Yes.  She was a move-in from Sherwood.
10       Q     Lauren Wilson play softball?
11       A     That was the first year she'd made the team.
12  Prior to that period of time, no, she had not made the
13  teams.
14       Q     So what is inaccurate about the paragraph
15  saying 14 Magruder team members enrolled in and attended
16  the clinic?
17       A     There were no team members.  The ones that I
18  have listed there, the five that are listed are
19  returning softball players from the previous season.
20  Yeah, five.  There might have -- I don't know whether
21  Shayna Pupa did, but those are the only ones I could
22  ascertain were previous members of the previous season.
00149
 1       Q     Katie Holetrop attend the clinic?
 2       A     Yes, she did.
 3       Q     Did she play varsity softball?
 4       A     Yes.
 5       Q     Beth Chernoff.
 6       A     Yes, she did.  No.  I don't know whether Beth
 7  attended the clinic or not.
 8             MR. RAND:  Who was before Chernoff?
 9             THE WITNESS:  Katie Holetrop.
10             MR. RAND:  What was your answer to that?
11             THE WITNESS:  She attended the clinic and
12  played varsity softball, yes, that year.
13             MR. RAND:  Chernoff, what was your answer?
14             THE WITNESS:  Chernoff, I don't remember
15  whether she attended the clinic or not.
16  BY MR. SUNTUM:
17       Q     Ms. Fortado (phonetic), did she play varsity
18  softball?
19       A     Not that year, no.
20       Q     What year did she play?
21       A     Oh, yes, that year she did play.  This past
22  year she placed soccer.  She moved back from soccer to
00150
 1  softball, back to soccer again.
 2       Q     Kristine Simpson played varsity softball,
 3  too, didn't she?
 4       A     Yes.
 5       Q     And Amanda Winston?
 6       A     Yes.
 7       Q     And Lauren Wilson?
 8       A     No.
 9       Q     Lauren Wilson did not?
10       A     In 1997, Lauren played -- I think Lauren
11  placed JV ball in 1997.
12       Q     It's also illegal to have a clinic for JV
13  players, is it not?
14       A     No.
15       Q     Just varsity?
16       A     Well -- you're putting it into perspective,
17  which I still say, I still contend was not an illegal
18  clinic.  The clinic was set up as a means for Derwood
19  girls to be able to get instruction in playing softball.
20  No one had ever attempted to do this in the past.
21             The previous summer Mr. Winston had coached a
22  girls softball team, and he and I had talked about the
00151
 1  possibility of holding this clinic.  We were going to do
 2  this as a joint effort.  We had many, many volunteers,
 3  anywhere from 15 to 20 parent volunteers to come in and
 4  work at the clinic, work with the students and so on to
 5  start the basics of an organization which we were hoping
 6  and is a continuing situation at this point right now.
 7       Q     There came a point in time when you realized
 8  that the players were not supposed to be attending the
 9  clinic, was there not?
10       A     After the beginning of the season, I had
11  second thoughts about the players attending Sunday
12  practices.  I was not able to ascertain whether or not
13  they were allowed to attend the clinic and also
14  participate on the team, so I did become aware of it.
15             I thought that there was going to be an
16  impropriety of the matter, and I asked them at that
17  period of time either not to come or come in and work as
18  mini coaches to help the younger players and so on.
19       Q     So they were not going to be receiving any
20  instruction at the clinic at that point?
21       A     Whatever instruction they would receive would
22  be in terms of doing the -- helping other kids and
00152
 1  listening to what was going on.  It's impossible to
 2  separate the two.
 3       Q     So you're suggesting you told them that they
 4  could not come to the clinic, but if they wanted to help
 5  out with the little kids, they could come?
 6       A     I don't think I put it in terms of do not
 7  come to the clinic.  I think I put it in terms of I
 8  don't think it's a good idea if you came as a
 9  participant, and that since the season had started and
10  so on, they didn't think it would be a good idea for
11  them to be -- most of them didn't come.
12       Q     In fact, what you told them was that they
13  weren't supposed to be at the clinic, so if they are
14  asked, they should say they were helping out the little
15  kids?
16       A     No.  That's what Mrs. Sutton alleged.
17       Q     And you're saying that's not true?
18       A     I'm saying that's totally inaccurate, yes.
19       Q     Well, what did the players that did come do?
20       A     I don't know.
21       Q     They went to the cafeteria, didn't they?
22       A     I don't know.
00153
 1       Q     Did they help out with the little girls?
 2       A     I don't know.
 3       Q     I thought you had explained to them if they
 4  came, they had to help out with the little girls.
 5       A     What I tried to do was separate myself from
 6  those members who might have been at the clinic and my
 7  direct instruction because I felt that that would be in
 8  direct violation of policy, and I did not want to try to
 9  put myself in that position.
10       Q     So you sent them to the cafeteria?
11       A     I didn't send them anywhere.  I don't know
12  where they went.
13       Q     Well, if you don't know where they went, how
14  do you know you were separating yourself from them?
15       A     When I looked there, and I see the girls that
16  I was working with, it was a total group type of thing,
17  they would be impossible to separate them, but if it was
18  on individual basics and so on, no, I was not there.  I
19  didn't think I needed to -- like I said, the instruction
20  was not practicing.  The instruction was learning
21  technique, so for me to be directly involved with
22  working with them, no.
00154
 1             And I don't remember, but -- precisely, but I
 2  do think that I had given other parents instructions to
 3  work with the kids that were on the team if there were
 4  any kids that did show up, but my request to them had
 5  been to, you know, work with other kids, work with the
 6  smaller kids, and as I state, you know, the most of them
 7  did not show.
 8       Q     But you don't know if they came and worked
 9  with the smaller kids or not?
10       A     I didn't keep looking who was there.  I don't
11  know.
12       Q     You don't know if they were sent to the
13  cafeteria or not?
14       A     I didn't keep looking.  I don't know whether
15  they were there.
16       Q     Which clinics do you contend you did not
17  attend?
18       A     The first clinic in March I know I came in
19  late.  I was there about halfway through it because I
20  had a regional wrestling meeting.  This was actually
21  probably -- okay.  It was probably the last weekend of
22  February because our state tournament was the following
00155
 1  weekend, which was Friday and Saturday of 1997.
 2             The last weekend of February would have been
 3  our seating meeting which we hold over at Sherwood High
 4  School in Sandy Spring, and that usually starts about
 5  10:00 o'clock in the morning and goes somewhere to 2:00,
 6  3:00 o'clock in the afternoon.
 7       Q     Any others?
 8       A     The very next meeting, the very next Sunday
 9  we had was the first Sunday in March, I think I was at
10  that one.  I'm pretty sure I was at that one.  That was
11  the one after the state wrestling tournament.  I had a
12  lot of things going on that day, and I know I was there
13  because I opened the gymnasium up and got the equipment
14  out.
15             The following meeting I was there for about
16  half of the meeting, and the reason I wasn't there for
17  half of the clinic -- the reason I wasn't there for the
18  whole clinic was that I had lost my keys, and I had a
19  few balls that we were able to get out and so on, no
20  equipment, and I was -- I had to take off from the place
21  and go back to the store where I had bought the sodas
22  and so on, and I spent the better part of two and a half
00156
 1  hours looking for my keys.
 2       Q     Did you give community service hours to the
 3  players on the team?
 4       A     Nobody requested any.
 5       Q     Is that a no?
 6       A     Yes.
 7             MR. RAND:  What was your question, Counsel?
 8             MR. SUNTUM:  Did he provide community service
 9  hours to any of the players on the team.
10  BY MR. SUNTUM:
11       Q     Paragraph number six, were the girls who made
12  the team required to pay $35 to you for equipment?
13       A     Yes.
14       Q     So that's an accurate statement?
15       A     Yes.  Wait a minute.  That's inaccurate.
16  That's inaccurate.  It says, "Required to pay
17  Mr. Hassler $35."  I received the money.  It was made
18  payable to Magruder High School, not Paul Hassler.  It
19  was not something which I funded as part of my clinic or
20  anything.
21             That was money that was directly billed to
22  Magruder High School and paid for out of Magruder High
00157
 1  School's athletic funds.  We are not allowed to give
 2  equipment to girls to keep.  Any equipment that's given
 3  to the girls to keep must be paid for by the girls.
 4       Q     Paragraph number seven, your practices were
 5  excesses of abuse?
 6       A     Inaccurate, and totally, totally egregious.
 7       Q     Now, you were a coach that yelled and
 8  screamed and berated and humiliated --
 9       A     No.  I am not that kind of a guy.  That's
10  your interpretation of what I do.  That's her
11  interpretation about what I did.  And as I stated,
12  Mrs. Sutton never attended a practice.
13       Q     If a coach humiliates and berates and yells
14  at players, would you consider that abusive?
15       A     No.
16       Q     Would you agree that reasonable people may
17  differ in opinion with you on that matter?
18       A     Yes.  Yes.
19       Q     You have testified that it is your policy
20  that errors need to be corrected?
21       A     Yes.
22       Q     And you made a habit of correcting errors
00158
 1  promptly whenever they were committed?
 2       A     Yes.
 3       Q     How would you do that?
 4       A     Depended upon whether it was during practice,
 5  during the game.  During the game situation, it's very
 6  tough because you need to take care of the errors
 7  immediately.  In practice, I would go out, and I would
 8  demonstrate the proper technique.  I would show them
 9  what they needed to do.  I would explain to them how to
10  do it.  We would drill on the specific or specificity of
11  the errors at that period of time, as anybody would.
12       Q     What tone of voice would you use?
13       A     I don't know.  Depended upon where --
14       Q     Might yell?
15       A     Yeah, I might yell because I might be
16  standing in the dugout and somebody's in the outfield,
17  and I might have to yell.  And on our field, we have
18  constant wind 99 percent of the time, so constantly
19  anything, any instructions that had to be given even
20  sometimes in the infield had to be yelling.  It could
21  not be the kind of thing whereas I could converse with
22  them on a very low level.  I would have to get out
00159
 1  there.
 2       Q     So you're suggesting the volume of your voice
 3  was solely to overcome the surrounding noise?
 4       A     No.  As I stated yesterday, that's a dual
 5  thing.  One is to overcome the surroundings, the
 6  environment; two is because many times I do not know.
 7  I'm a loud person.  I've always been a loud person.
 8       Q     So students who perceive you as always
 9  yelling, that perception is probably accurate?
10       A     It could be.  But that's their perception,
11  yes.  Yelling, you know, it's like an actor or actress,
12  volume is one of the things which they have, and also
13  physical ability.  Some people physically have the
14  ability to project their voice in a much louder fashion
15  than other ones.  Other people are very, very meek, and
16  their yelling is whispering.
17       Q     Do you understand the difference between
18  positive and negative reinforcement?
19       A     Yes.
20       Q     How do you correct errors?
21       A     It's a combination of all different types of
22  things.  I correct errors by demonstration.  I correct
00160
 1  errors by explanation.  I try to draw parallels to
 2  different things that they're doing.  If that's during a
 3  game and so on, sometimes it's direct, you will do this,
 4  and if the player in question either balks at doing it
 5  or refuses to do it, you must replace that player.
 6       Q     Do you think you have a reputation for a
 7  coach who uses a lot of positive reinforcement?
 8             MR. RAND:  Objection.
 9       A     I don't know.
10  BY MR. SUNTUM:
11       Q     Do you have any explanation for why you
12  wouldn't have such a reputation?
13       A     I don't -- my feeling of my reputation in the
14  community is -- or not only in the community, but in the
15  totality of the sports are I have received many
16  accolades from a lot of different groups of people on
17  things that I have done in the various sports that I
18  have coached.
19             I have recommendations, which I'm sure you
20  have, from the coaches that I received about softball,
21  about how I took a team which was at best a summer rec
22  league team and made them into a formidable team,
00161
 1  someone which people took note on, had to learn how to
 2  play against, and in some situations were not able to
 3  beat us because I had turned the program around.
 4             My whole intent my first year in coaching the
 5  sport was to change the direction that that sport had
 6  taken in that school.  It had the impression from
 7  everybody there's no team there, there is nothing there,
 8  and there really wasn't.
 9             Girls who had good athletic ability weren't
10  even able to perform to even minimal standards of
11  softball, and it's very well reflected in the game
12  scores.  If you take a look at the game scores, it's
13  very well reflected in the feelings of the girls.  I
14  turned the situation around.  I made the team into
15  something, a team that was respected, a team that could
16  play together, a team that would go out there.
17             And this last year we played Watkins Mill
18  High school who is a very well-respected team in two
19  games, one to zero loss, in our regional finals -- or
20  two to one loss I think it is in our regional finals,
21  and two weeks earlier to a one to zero loss in a regular
22  season game.  The season before we had gotten beaten
00162
 1  pretty mercifully by the Watkins Mill team, and prior to
 2  that there wasn't even a contest.
 3       Q     You don't want to give any of this credit to
 4  Allison Stang?
 5       A     Allison Stang is a fantastic person, but
 6  Allison Stang is only one of the team members.  When you
 7  win as a team, you don't win as an individual.  You win
 8  as a team.  You lose as a team.
 9       Q     Are you suggesting that the pitcher in
10  fast-pitch girls high school softball is not critical to
11  the success of the team?
12       A     A pitcher is extremely critical, but also so
13  is defense, and when we lost to Watkins Mill High
14  School, the girls were playing magnificent defense.
15  Every ball that was hit was met.  Proper plays were
16  made.  You don't make proper plays without having proper
17  instruction.  You don't play this game by not having the
18  ability prior to going onto the field to know that you
19  can make a play.
20       Q     As a coach, you think the result is more
21  important than the process of getting there?
22       A     No.  No.  You take care of the process prior
00163
 1  to you stepping on the field.  You teach.  You can't
 2  teach during a game a complete process.  You can only
 3  refine during a game a process, so when a ball is hit to
 4  the shortstop, and there's somebody at first base, the
 5  second baseman needs to know they are required to be on
 6  second base, and they are required to make that play,
 7  and the shortstop also knows they pick that ball up, and
 8  they get that ball to second base to make that play.
 9             While all that's going on, every other one of
10  the team members on the field has a place where they
11  have to go to to back up things as errant throws,
12  errors, et cetera, and without any kind of proper
13  instruction, those people aren't there.  And prior to my
14  time in taking over the team, those kind of plays were
15  not made.
16       Q     You're suggesting the only way to teach them
17  those proper plays is to yell at them?
18       A     No.  I did not suggest that one bit.  You
19  said that.
20       Q     All right.  Is that, in fact, your coaching
21  style?
22       A     No.  No.  And I don't yell at them every
00164
 1  instance of every practice of everything.  Mrs. Sutton
 2  made it a point that three to four times a week my
 3  practices were intolerable, they were the kinds of
 4  things that were egregious acts of violence, I would
 5  lose my temper three to four times a week during
 6  practice and through every game, which is totally
 7  inaccurate.
 8             She wouldn't even have knowledge of it.  She
 9  has no knowledge of the practices.  She was never there.
10  During the games she would show up for maybe the fifth,
11  sixth and seventh innings of the games that she would
12  show up for.
13             She states that she was there for 14 of the
14  18 games, which is -- I don't even think she knows how
15  to count because I know she wasn't there for that many
16  games, and if she did, she would always show up late in
17  the game, and whatever happened, she would gain
18  experience from that point.  She was -- I don't ever
19  remember her being there at the beginning of a game and
20  staying for the entirety of the game.
21             For teams I coached during the summer league,
22  she was there almost for almost every game, and I think
00165
 1  the purpose of that was to make sure that I was not
 2  going to say anything to the girls on the team, which I
 3  didn't.  I kept my distance.  I stayed out of the fray,
 4  and I stayed with -- I spoke with my daughters.
 5       Q     Let's get back to the question about positive
 6  reinforcement.  Do you ever use it?
 7       A     Yes.
 8       Q     Give me an example of your use of positive
 9  reinforcement.
10       A     I can give you a very explicit one.  The last
11  game that we played we had been working on a play at
12  second base whereas the second baseman, if there was a
13  pop-up out in the short field, that the player would go
14  out, turn themselves to the infield, make the play on
15  the ball, and then survey, quickly survey the situation,
16  get rid of the ball to the best of their abilities.
17             Ms. Sutton's daughter, Genny, during the last
18  game, I think it was the last game of the season, made
19  such a play.  When she came in off the field, I pulled
20  her aside and made it a point to personally say to her,
21  "Genny, we finally got to the point where what I had
22  been trying to teach you you were able to perfect.  You
00166
 1  were able to do it."  In softball, it's a very difficult
 2  play to make, which she was able to do it.
 3             There are many instances which I -- how many,
 4  10, 15, 20, on every day of practice, on everything,
 5  positive types of reinforcements that go out.  It seems
 6  a shame that the only time that any types of
 7  reinforcements that are ever brought to point are the
 8  negative ones.  The positive ones are never pointed out,
 9  and that's true for every sport from every coach and
10  from anybody who has ever been associated with a sport.
11             It's easy to see the things that go wrong.
12  It's extremely difficult to note the things that go
13  right.  When you win, everybody thinks everything is all
14  hunky dory.  When you lose, everybody wants to start
15  pointing a finger.
16             I don't point the finger.  What I do is I
17  say, hey, this is what we did wrong; this is what we
18  have to correct.  The day that Genny didn't play was due
19  directly to the problem that we were experiencing with
20  Genny in which Genny needed to have the instruction to
21  be able to overcome a problem with which she was having.
22       Q     What problem was that?
00167
 1       A     Like I said, I think it was a cut-off throw
 2  from the outfield.  I cannot -- I cannot be assured
 3  that's what it is, but through the entirety of my
 4  coaching of these two teams, I got -- I involved
 5  everybody on the bench or everybody that I had on the
 6  team into learning situations, learning play.
 7             I had tried to double up every position that
 8  I had on the team to try to get it, so as if one person
 9  wasn't able to perform to the expectations that I had, I
10  had somebody else who would be an equivalent model to
11  get in there.  I didn't have that quality of students
12  this past year.  The previous year I did have that
13  quality of students.
14       Q     So something you can't understand as to why
15  your reputation isn't one for one who uses positive
16  reinforcement if that's the case?
17             MR. RAND:  Objection.  He didn't testify that
18  he didn't use positive reinforcement.
19             MR. SUNTUM:  I'm not saying that.
20  BY MR. SUNTUM:
21       Q     You said you don't know if you have a
22  reputation as a coach who uses positive reinforcement;
00168
 1  is that correct?  You don't know what your reputation is
 2  in that regard?
 3       A     I disagree with that statement.  I do believe
 4  that I use positive reinforcement.  I do believe that
 5  there is a perception out there that I do use positive
 6  reinforcement.
 7       Q     Among your players?
 8       A     Among my players, and that is exhibited by
 9  other team coaches, from what they observe going on
10  there, by the umpires of the teams or the umpires of the
11  games that we've had.  I had numerous comments
12  throughout the season, and I don't know the umpires.
13  They don't know me.
14             Some of them I played against back in the
15  days when they umpired games when I was playing ball.  I
16  remember them, but I don't remember their names.  But
17  many of them congratulated me on the things that I had
18  done in helping Magruder's softball program, turning it
19  around, making it into a type of a team whereas the
20  girls were playing softball.  They were not just out
21  there playing a game.  They were out there playing
22  softball.
00169
 1       Q     Do you think they had fun at your practices?
 2       A     I know they had fun at my practices.
 3       Q     Is it normal for players who play softball in
 4  one year not to come back and play the following?
 5       A     If they don't get much playing time, I'd say
 6  yes.  I couldn't tell you how softball -- girls are
 7  funny to coach.  They're different than guys.
 8       Q     Why?
 9       A     Oh, God, having four daughters, why are girls
10  different than guys?  I don't know.
11       Q     Well, what did you mean when you made that
12  comment?
13       A     Experience.
14       Q     What experience?
15       A     Experience.  I have four daughters, and
16  dealing with four daughters on a daily basis, from
17  minute to minute their demeanor, how you talk with them,
18  how you say things.  One of my daughters, "Well, I have
19  the flu this morning."  "Yeah.  Okay.  Good."  Well,
20  4:00 o'clock that afternoon, "I'm going out for dinner
21  tonight."  "No, you're not."  "Well, why not?"  "Well,
22  you said you had the flu."  "Yeah, but I'm better now."
00170
 1  "Well, you're not going."  Next thing you know, big
 2  argument, tears.  Now, why should something like that
 3  happen?  I don't know.
 4       Q     You made the comment that coaching girls is
 5  different than boys.  What did you mean?
 6       A     I just stated what I meant.
 7       Q     How did you modify your coaching technique in
 8  coaching a girls volleyball and girls softball team?
 9       A     I modified it almost on a daily basis
10  depending upon how the attitudes were.  Some days you'd
11  go out on the field and the girls would be very easy to
12  work with.  Everything I'd say to them they'd go out and
13  just do it, no questions, no if, and or buts.  No
14  rebuttals, whatever.
15             Other days I'd walk on the field, and it was
16  like night and day, just don't know where they were,
17  what was going on.  Social things outside of the team
18  play a terrific part of what goes on in practices and in
19  games.  It's -- it is not easy to coach girls.  It's
20  not -- sometimes it's not fun to coach girls.  Same
21  thing in raising them.
22             You've got the good, bad and the ugly all the
00171
 1  time, and you never ever have a stock defense, a stock
 2  situation, stock teaching technique that will work.  You
 3  have to constantly be ahead of the game, constantly be
 4  doing things, which not only keep their minds into the
 5  game but keeps them active to the point whereas they
 6  don't have the time to sit around and do the typical
 7  girl-type things.
 8       Q     How would you respond when you found them to
 9  be distracted with girl-type things?
10       A     I've give them something to do.
11       Q     Like what?
12       A     I'd give them drills to perform.  Sometimes
13  if they were messing around, I'd have them run a lap or
14  two.  If they were just talking, which normally is the
15  kind of things, talk, giggling, doing things, I'd try to
16  get them back into practicing again.
17       Q     How would you do that?
18       A     Like I just said, I would give them drills to
19  do, make up things for them to do.  There's always
20  something.  Two-hour period of time and one coach on the
21  team is never a good situation.  There's so many things
22  that are constantly -- that can be taught and can be
00172
 1  learned, and it is impossible.  It was impossible for me
 2  as a single coach to be able to go out there and
 3  consistently do this with them.
 4       Q     Did you extend practices?
 5       A     On occasion.
 6       Q     How occasionally?
 7       A     Oh, I don't know.  My first year I'd say
 8  maybe once a week.  I don't know.  I couldn't tell you.
 9  I didn't keep a book on it.  I'm sure Ms. Sutton did.  I
10  didn't.
11       Q     Did you give any consideration to the
12  extending of practices on the girls' schedules?
13       A     No.  It's a common technique that's used by
14  most of the coaches.
15       Q     Common technique for what?
16       A     Start and end times are usually general times
17  for practicing.  The field hockey coach I know, for
18  example, extended practices many times this past season,
19  and that's just the way it was.  She had things she
20  needed to do.  She had things she had to cover, and she
21  took the time to do it.
22       Q     What if the girls objected because they had
00173
 1  other appointments, what would you do?
 2       A     What would I do?  If they came and informed
 3  me about it, most of the time I would give them
 4  something to do to make up for the time lost.
 5       Q     Are you suggesting you would let them go?
 6       A     Almost invariably let them go.  I think there
 7  may have been one or two times which I didn't leave them
 8  go because I had something which is important enough for
 9  them to be there.  Usually my practice type of thing was
10  if they inform me ahead of time that they had an
11  appointment, they had something that they had to do,
12  which was my preferred type of thing.  I rarely, if
13  ever, had any difficulty with it, and normally speaking
14  there was never a problem with it.
15       Q     Did you ever inform them that they shouldn't
16  schedule things after the practice because you may
17  extend practice?
18       A     No.  No.  Because you never know when -- I
19  never knew when it was going to happen.
20       Q     So if they had happened to have things
21  scheduled after practice, it was just their tough luck
22  if you decided to extend it?
00174
 1       A     No.  If we were going on, and they told me
 2  they had to go to work, they always went.
 3       Q     What if they told you they had to go
 4  somewhere else other than work?
 5       A     It depends upon the situation.  You know, as
 6  with any coach, I would ask them is there any way that
 7  you can go later.  I try to be as amenable as I could be
 8  with all the girls.
 9       Q     Kristine Simpson quit the team?
10       A     Yes, she did.
11       Q     Why?
12       A     Kristine Simpson had just come back from an
13  injury.  She had broken her hand, and during a game over
14  at Walter Johnson High School, one of the night games we
15  had, it was the first game that she was probably ready
16  to start playing, and I started her as a catcher.
17             At the end of the first inning, the pitcher,
18  Allison Stang, came in to me and asked me to change back
19  to the older catcher, that she just felt uncomfortable
20  about being with Kristine, about Kristine's catching,
21  and she felt that Kristine wasn't up to par, and that
22  she would respectfully request that I bring the other
00175
 1  catcher back in, which I listened to, and I had
 2  ascertained early in the inning that my feelings of
 3  having her were very uncomfortable also, so I did that,
 4  and I moved Kristine to the outfield.
 5             Kristine objected vehemently from being moved
 6  away to the outfield.  I didn't want to take Kristine
 7  out of the game because I felt that she had wanted to
 8  play so much that at least I had a place for her to go
 9  to.  She stated, oh, I never played the outfield, which
10  was true.  She had always been the catcher.  But I felt
11  it was important enough to keep her into the game for
12  her own self-being, that to put her somewhere to do it.
13             As she was coming off the field, she was
14  yelling at me about, you know, I do not want to play the
15  outfield.  If I've got to go to the outfield again, I'm
16  quitting.  And when the team when back out on the field,
17  Kristine didn't go back to the outfield, and I had to
18  send another girl out.  When I sent other girl out on
19  the field, a few minute later, Kristine came over to me
20  and informed me she was quitting and walked off the
21  field.
22       Q     Is it normal for you to listen to your
00176
 1  pitcher dictate who should be the catcher?
 2       A     That was not a dictate.  That was a request,
 3  and I had to make a decision, and my decision basically
 4  was, on the one hand, I knew what she was saying to me
 5  was correct, and I knew that I was not comfortable with
 6  Kristine behind the plate, and that it was a very
 7  reasonable request from the pitcher to change out
 8  catchers.
 9             Being a catcher myself and understanding
10  pitchers, there are pitchers that like the way I caught,
11  and if there was someone else there that they were more
12  appropriately aligned with and they had requested the
13  other catcher, that I was taken out of games, and didn't
14  matter whether I liked it or I disliked it.
15             MR. RAND:  Counsel, I want a two-minute break
16  when you get done with the subject.
17             MR. SUNTUM:  We can break right now.
18             MR. RAND:  Madam Reporter, note for the
19  record that it's continuing to snow and has constantly
20  and heavily since, I guess, 8:00 o'clock this morning.
21             MR. SUNTUM:  Note that the streets are very
22  clear, and the weather says the snow is going to stop.
00177
 1                (A brief recess was taken.)
 2  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 3       Q     Did Beth Storke quit the team?
 4       A     No.
 5       Q     Ever?
 6       A     No.
 7       Q     You said --
 8             MR. RAND:  You said Beth Storke?
 9  BY MR. SUNTUM:
10       Q     She never left and came back?
11       A     Yes, she did.
12       Q     You don't consider that quitting the team?
13       A     No.  She didn't have a choice.
14       Q     How many times did she leave and come back?
15       A     She came back after the Easter holiday with a
16  tongue stud, which was a something that they stick in
17  their tongues, and I refused to allow her to practice or
18  play as long as she had that tongue stud in her mouth,
19  and told her that she was off the team until such time
20  as she removed that tongue stud.  I felt it was a safety
21  hazard.
22             I called -- talked to my athletic director
00178
 1  and principal about it.  They both concurred.  I spoke
 2  with the director of health education and physical
 3  education, Mr. Masoud (phonetic) about it.  He
 4  concurred.  The officials said that they would not allow
 5  the students to take the field with a tongue stud in.
 6  They call it a piece of jewelry.  I called it a safety
 7  item.  I was worried about the student being hit in the
 8  mouth, swallowing her tongue, and that creating problems
 9  which were not -- could have been prevented ahead of
10  time.
11             I was basically, I think, more protecting
12  myself and the liability of the issue and making sure
13  that when the student was out on the field, we are
14  directed that that student is in proper uniform, proper
15  attire and has -- proper safety precautions have been
16  taken care of.
17       Q     Do you have any similar incidents with her
18  where she walked out of the practice or off the team?
19       A     I can't recollect any.
20       Q     Do you have any other students who objected
21  to your yelling during practice?
22       A     Well, it's a typical reaction type thing.
00179
 1  Well,  you don't need to yell about it type of thing,
 2  and, you know -- you know, if I'd be yelling something
 3  in the outfield, why do you have to be so loud, and
 4  these were coming from infielders, and it's obvious to
 5  talk to somebody in the outfield, you had to be loud.
 6       Q     What would your response be?
 7       A     Oh, okay.
 8       Q     What are the Montgomery County rules on
 9  lightning?
10       A     When lightning is spotted, you are supposed
11  to stop the games.  Teams clear the field, and you need
12  to wait 20 minutes until the last that any lightning,
13  and subsequently now I think thunder is included in
14  that, have been observed.
15       Q     Do you recall an incident where there was
16  lightning and thunder in a particular game and the play
17  was not stopped immediately?
18       A     Are you referring to Mrs. Sutton's
19  description?
20       Q     Yes, I am.
21       A     Mrs. Sutton is completely off base on every
22  fact of that situation that could be made.
00180
 1       Q     Why don't you describe that situation.
 2       A     The situation occurred at a game between
 3  Magruder High School and Walter Johnson High School.  It
 4  was a home field game.  We had seen clouds in the
 5  distance, and I think during the 1997 season distant
 6  thunder was not part of the confines about removing
 7  teams from the field.
 8             I think in 1997, '98, because of this
 9  incident and a few other incidents that thunder and
10  lightning had been observed during play, they revised
11  their policy to include thunder, impending storms, as
12  being part of the situation.
13             The game is -- was under control of the
14  umpire.  None of us saw any lightning.  We did hear
15  distant thunder.  The other coach and I talked about it
16  and the umpire said, "Let's see how much more of this
17  game we can get in."  I think our team was to go out on
18  the field.
19             I can't remember whether we were at bat or on
20  the field, but I do know that as soon as the inning
21  started, that a few drops, raindrops had started to
22  come, and then a lightning strike was seen in the
00181
 1  distance by, I think, the infield umpire, and the game
 2  was immediately called, all equipment was gathered in,
 3  and the field was vacated, and we all went into the
 4  school.
 5       Q     Do you suggest that was at the first sign of
 6  lightning?
 7       A     That was the first sign of lightning, yes.
 8       Q     Let me direct your attention to deposition
 9  exhibit which was your draft response to John Nori.  I
10  direct your attention to page three, the third paragraph
11  which begins page two, paragraph 11.  You write, "When
12  the two coaches, myself and Walter Johnson coach,
13  approached the umpire, he felt we should continue since
14  it was in his judgment far in the distance.  Within a
15  minute or so of the sighting, a second stroke happened,
16  and we decided to vacate the fields."
17       A     I think that's accurate.
18       Q     So there was a first stroke that was not --
19       A     We heard thunder.  I didn't even say -- it
20  says many individuals witnessed the instance, and
21  according to Montgomery County policy, the play is to
22  stop in the first instance.  We didn't notice it.
00182
 1       Q     You wrote to Mr. Nori that within a minute or
 2  so of the sighting, sighting of what?
 3       A     The second stroke.  It says within a minute
 4  or so of sighting, a second stroke happened, and we
 5  decided to vacate the fields.
 6       Q     So within a minute or so of the sighting, a
 7  second stroke happened?
 8       A     Yes.
 9       Q     So the second stroke was a minute or so after
10  a sighting of something.  The question was --
11       A     Oh, there was a questionable sighting, yes.
12       Q     There was a questionable sighting?
13       A     We didn't know what happened.  I think that I
14  testified to the fact that we had heard thunder, and
15  usually with thunder there is lightning somewhere.  We
16  did not see the thunder or we did not see the lightning.
17  We heard the thunder.
18       Q     This exhibit is an exhibit that you wrote,
19  correct?  This is your draft, your words?
20       A     This was a draft.  This was something that I
21  had written up the night prior or night after I had been
22  given the letter from Mrs. Sutton.  I felt a need to
00183
 1  respond as quickly as I could.  It was really not meant
 2  for any publication or any subsequent being passed on
 3  because I didn't sign it.
 4       Q     Are you suggesting that you were
 5  intentionally inaccurate?
 6       A     No.  As a matter of fact, that's about as
 7  accurate as I could reflect.  Remember, now, this is in
 8  November, and this situation had occurred the previous
 9  spring.
10       Q     This is November 1997 as opposed to --
11       A     Yeah.
12       Q     -- December 1998?
13       A     Correct.
14       Q     This is much closer to the incident?
15       A     Correct.
16       Q     And it reflects a second sighting of
17  lightning?
18       A     No.  It didn't say that.  I mean, excuse me.
19  I have a difficult time, you know, reading things and
20  understanding what it says, but it says many individuals
21  witnessed the instance, and according to Montgomery
22  County policy, play is to stop when the first instance
00184
 1  of sighting lightning.  When the two coaches, myself and
 2  Walter Johnson coach, approached the umpire, he felt we
 3  should continue since it was his judgment that the
 4  lightning -- I didn't put that in there, was far and in
 5  the distance.
 6       Q     So there had been lightning?
 7       A     Well, it was not our call to make.
 8       Q     So now you're changing --
 9       A     No.  No.  I'm not changing anything.  Now,
10  listen to what I have to say.  The other coach -- I'm
11  trying to think what her name is.  The Walter Johnson
12  coach, her position in the softball hierarchy is that
13  she was the Class 1A, 2A representative for all of the
14  softball in Montgomery County.
15             It is -- when it comes to knowledge of
16  softball and knowledge of rules of softball, she is one
17  of the people who helps to write the rules that are used
18  by Montgomery County and the policy that's used by
19  Montgomery County.  Would you like me to continue?
20       Q     If you'd like to complete your answer, go
21  ahead.
22       A     Well, I'd like to have you hear it because it
00185
 1  seems when I say one thing, you interpret it as
 2  something else, and I'm talking to you now directly,
 3  trying to answer your question, and you have something
 4  else going on in your mind.
 5       Q     My question was whether there was or was not
 6  two strokes of lightning.
 7       A     I do not know.  I do not know if there was
 8  two strokes of lightning.  I heard thunder, and the
 9  presumption is if you hear thunder, damn, there better
10  be some lightning because what else caused it?
11             Now, that is the policy today.  Whether it
12  was the policy at that period of time, I do not know,
13  but the coach from the other team does have direct
14  knowledge and did have direct knowledge since her team
15  was facing the direction where the storm was coming in
16  from.  My team was not.  She had much more knowledge of
17  whether there was an actual lightning strike than I had.
18             She was unclear.  She, along with the umpire
19  and myself, all concluded that we were not in imminent
20  danger, and we could continue on with the game.
21             You also have a letter from Mr. Nori stating
22  that fact.  That umpire was called and questioned
00186
 1  concerning that game, and his recollections were exactly
 2  the same as my recollections are.  He did not see it.  I
 3  did not see it.  The other coach who was in a position
 4  to be able to note that there was lightning did not see
 5  it.  Therefore, it was questionable whether or not
 6  actual lightning had occurred.
 7             I might further add that I did notice that
 8  the soccer team was leaving the field at that period of
 9  time, and it was also noted, I think, by
10  Ms. Boveau-Johnson that the soccer team had left.  They
11  were in a different area, not blocked by the school,
12  that they might have been able to observe that lightning
13  strike.  We were not.
14             There was another baseball game going on.
15  They continued to play, we continued to play, and then
16  within a very short period of time, a minute or two, it
17  might have been four or five minutes, that's just ...
18       Q     Did you recruit team members to help your
19  Lion's Club mulch sale?
20       A     Yes, I did.
21       Q     Did you tell them that you would reward them
22  with community service hours that they actually served?
00187
 1       A     Yes.  That's correct.
 2       Q     Did you report them as having more community
 3  service hours than they actually served?
 4       A     No, I did not.
 5       Q     Did you reward any players with community
 6  service hours?
 7       A     No.  None of them showed up.  It was not a
 8  Montgomery Lion's Club mulch sale.  This was a mulch
 9  sale for Magruder High School softball team.
10       Q     Did you ever inflate the grades of any of
11  your softball players?
12       A     No, I did not.
13       Q     Do you have any reason as to why any of your
14  softball players would suggest that you did?
15       A     I think if I recollect what Mrs. Sutton's
16  complaint was is that I would ask the players in my
17  classes what grade did they want on their report cards,
18  and then that's the grade I would give them, which was a
19  total obnoxious lie.
20       Q     Do you have any reason to explain why any of
21  your students would suggest that you did inflate their
22  grade?
00188
 1       A     Over the years in teaching, there are
 2  sometimes situations whereas it is in the best interests
 3  of the kids to help them out with grades, and that if
 4  they're on a borderline situation, you might give them
 5  the benefit of the doubt on a grade just to help them to
 6  help themselves and with the hopes that they would
 7  improve in the future years or not in future years but
 8  improve their demeanor towards the academics and also to
 9  give them a little bit of pump.
10       Q     Do you have any records to support the grades
11  that you gave your students?
12       A     They are the property of Montgomery County
13  Public Schools.
14       Q     Are they maintained?
15       A     Yes.  They are maintained somewhere.  I do
16  not maintain them.
17       Q     What records are they?
18       A     I mean --
19       Q     What records are there behind the report card
20  which shows where the grade on the report card comes
21  from?
22       A     We are required to hand in grade books every
00189
 1  year.
 2       Q     What is in your grade book?
 3       A     Grades.
 4       Q     The grade that is on the report card or the
 5  grade on all the quizzes and tests --
 6       A     I are supposed to be able to reconstruct
 7  grades so if there is a question on grades that you can
 8  call them in.
 9       Q     And where did those books go?
10       A     I don't know.
11       Q     You have turned yours in?
12       A     Every year.  That's been true in every school
13  system I've been in.
14       Q     Do you remember a student by the name of Abba
15  Shack (phonetic)?
16       A     Yes.
17       Q     He had you for a math teacher?
18       A     Yes.
19       Q     Do you recall an incident where he advised
20  you that you had mistakenly given him credit for
21  something he had gotten wrong?
22       A     Yes.
00190
 1       Q     What was your response?
 2       A     I deducted the points that he obtained for
 3  that problem.
 4       Q     Did you have any comments to him?
 5       A     After class, yes.
 6       Q     What comments did you make to him?
 7       A     That it is my policy that when an error is
 8  made, that the error should be corrected.  If it was in
 9  the student's behalf, it goes to the student.  And if it
10  was against the student, it should be their own as to
11  own up to it.
12       Q     Did you make any comments to him as to why he
13  brought that to your attention?
14       A     I saw the comment he made, which is totally
15  out of context.  He had made a statement to me that I
16  think this is really stupid of you to do something like
17  that.  And I said, wait a minute, you know, I think
18  that's kind of harsh to use that way of describing the
19  whole situation.
20             I said, you know, you got a problem right
21  that was wrong.  I feel that it is my and has been my
22  active way of grading for 30 years that if a student has
00191
 1  something that was marked right, should have been wrong,
 2  it's their responsibility to either bring it to me, we
 3  correct it.
 4             Rarely, if ever, is it hurtful to a student
 5  to have such a thing done.  To me it shows the integrity
 6  of the student.  It shows that the student is the kind
 7  of student that I like to have in class.
 8       Q     Well, that is --
 9       A     Honest.
10       Q     That is, in fact, what Abba Shack did,
11  correct?
12       A     What's that?
13       Q     Brought to your attention.
14       A     He brought it to my attention, and then Abba
15  Shack is -- was a very hyper type of a kid.  I find
16  it -- you know, I find it extremely difficult talking
17  about kids' personalities and so on because I feel that
18  my -- again, perception.  My perception of him might not
19  be the same perception as someone else's perception of
20  him.  But Abba shack was a very hyper kind of a kid.
21  You know, he'd bounce into class --
22       Q     The question is:  Did you or did you not
00192
 1  imply to him or say that he was not wise to bring to
 2  your attention an error in his favor?
 3       A     No.  As a matter of fact, I had relayed to
 4  him that I thought it was very admirable that he would
 5  bring it to me.  His reasoning for bringing it to me,
 6  though, was that he had been comparing tests with
 7  another girl in class, which I also contend it should
 8  not be done.  My contention is your grades, your test is
 9  your business.
10             Now, when I go over a test, if you find
11  something that's wrong on a test and it should be
12  corrected, please take care of the situation.  Justify
13  it.  We'll take care of it.  If you find something
14  that's right on your test that should be marked wrong,
15  my feeling is you have the obligation to bring that
16  forward to me and we make the correction.  It's rarely,
17  if ever, a grade determining type of a thing.  It's the
18  honesty factor.  It's the truthfulness of it.
19       Q     So you deny that you implied to him that he
20  was foolish in bringing that to your attention?
21       A     Yes.
22       Q     In fact, you insist or testify that you
00193
 1  conveyed the opposite, in fact, admiration of him for
 2  bringing an error in his favor to your attention?
 3       A     I believe when the instance happened, that
 4  immediately that's what I said to him.  He came up to me
 5  after class and really -- he was very hyper about it.
 6  He didn't think it was right that I would take points
 7  away from him.
 8       Q     Do you have a player by the name of Andrea
 9  Seresa (phonetic) on your softball team?
10       A     Yes.  Andrea played softball.
11       Q     Did she have knee surgery?
12       A     I don't know.
13       Q     You don't know whether or not she had bad
14  knees?
15       A     She had a physical disability in playing ball
16  that year.
17       Q     You don't know what that physical disability
18  is?
19       A     No.  As a matter of fact, had I known about
20  it prior, earlier in the season, probably she would not
21  have made the team.
22       Q     Do you recall an instance where she made a
00194
 1  bad play of some sort, and you told her she was
 2  worthless, get off the field?
 3       A     No.  I do not remember that, no.
 4       Q     Do you deny that