00001
 1  IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND
 2  ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 3  PAUL W. HASSLER
 4                     Plaintiff
 5            v.                        Civil Action No.
 6  SUZANNE ADELE SUTTON                  186394
 7                     Defendant
 8  ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 9                      Rockville, Maryland
10                      Tuesday, January 26, 1999
11  Deposition of:
12                      JOHN R. NORI
13  called for oral examination by counsel for the
14  Defendant, pursuant to notice, held in the offices of
15  Miller, Miller & Canby, 200B Monroe Street,
16  Rockville, Maryland, beginning at 11:35 a.m., before
17  Barbara Massengill, Registered Professional Reporter
18  and Notary Public in and for the State of Maryland,
19  when were present:
20  
21  
22  
00002
 1       ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF:
 2             CHARLES S. RAND, ESQUIRE
 3             McKernon & Rand
 4             207 Baltimore Road
 5             Rockville, Maryland 20850-41335
 6             (301) 762-1400
 7       ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT:
 8             JOSEPH P. SUNTUM, ESQUIRE
 9             Miller, Miller & Canby
10             200B Monroe Street
11             Rockville, Maryland 20850
12             (301) 762-5212
13       ALSO PRESENT:
14       PAUL W. HASSLER
15       SUZANNE A. SUTTON
16  
17  
18  
19  
20  
21  
22  
00003
 1                     C O N T E N T S
 2  EXAMINATION OF JOHN R. NORI                   PAGE
 3      By Mr. Suntum                            4, 165
 4      By Mr. Rand                            130, 170
 5                     E X H I B I T S
 6                  (Retained by Counsel)
 7  DEFENDANT'S                                    PAGE
 8      1        Notes                              22
 9      2        Letter                             47
10      3        Letter                             51
11      4        Questions                          61
12      5        Update to Mike Glascoe             63
13      6        2/10/98 Memo                       87
14      7        Memo                               88
15      8        Memo                               91
16      9        E-mail                            122
17      10       5/7/97 Letter                     153
18      11       5/7/97 Letter                     153
19  
20  
21  
22  
00004
 1                  P R O C E E D I N G S
 2                      JOHN R. NORI
 3      having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
 4       EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE DEFENDANT:
 5  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 6       Q    Would you state your name and occupational
 7  address, please?
 8       A    John Richard Nori.  Magruder High School,
 9  5939 Muncaster Mill Road, Rockville, Maryland 20855.
10       Q    What is your position with Magruder High
11  School?
12       A    I'm the principal.
13       Q    How long have you been in that position?
14       A    This is my second year, so a year and one
15  semester.
16       Q    You began your tour as principal during the
17  summer 1997?
18       A    That's correct.
19       Q    What is your educational background?
20       A    I have a bachelor's degree in English and
21  secondary education and a master's degree in
22  secondary education.
00005
 1       Q    Where did you get the bachelor's?
 2       A    Shippensburg University in Pennsylvania and
 3  the master's degree at the University of Maryland.
 4       Q    And what year did you get your bachelor's?
 5       A    1971.
 6       Q    And master's?
 7       A    1975.
 8       Q    And what did you do upon graduating in
 9  1971?
10       A    Became a teacher in Montgomery County.
11       Q    What school?
12       A    Springbrook High School first.
13       Q    What subjects?
14       A    English.
15       Q    How long did you teach at Springbrook?
16       A    Three years.
17       Q    Did you take time off to get your master's
18  or did you do that --
19       A    I did that part time.
20       Q    What did you do after Springbrook?
21       A    I moved from Springbrook to Seneca Valley
22  where I was an English teacher and also taught speech
00006
 1  there for two years.
 2       Q    And what was your next position after
 3  Seneca?
 4       A    I went to Poolesville Junior-Senior and
 5  became the resource teacher and head of the English
 6  department.
 7       Q    How long were you at Poolesville?
 8       A    Five and a half years.
 9       Q    That takes you through what school year?
10       A    I was there through the 1981/82 school
11  year.
12       Q    Where did you go after?
13       A    Woodward High School where I was English
14  resource teacher.
15       Q    How long were you at Woodward?
16       A    I was there from '82 to '87 when the school
17  closed.
18       Q    Where did you go?
19       A    One year in training as assistant principal
20  at Einstein High School in Kensington.
21       Q    Did you receive a principal appointment
22  after that?
00007
 1       A    No, that's not the way secondary school
 2  administration works.  I went from my year of
 3  training to assistant principal, which is typical
 4  administrator, I was assigned to Magruder, assigned
 5  for two years as assistant principal.
 6       Q    What years were they?
 7       A    '88/89, '89/90.
 8       Q    And where did you go after Magruder in
 9  1990?
10       A    Then I went to get what is commonly called
11  my middle school experience.  I became middle school
12  assistant principal at what was then Gaithersburg
13  Intermediate, it is Gaithersburg Middle School now,
14  and I was there for two academic years.
15       Q    And that takes us to summer 1992?
16       A    Yes, and that's when I became principal at
17  Julius West Middle School.
18       Q    How long were you there?
19       A    Four years.  After that I spent a year in
20  the central office as director of middle school
21  instruction.
22       Q    And went from there to principal at
00008
 1  Magruder?
 2       A    Correct.
 3       Q    Do you know Gennie Maricle?
 4       A    Yes, I did.
 5       Q    How did you know her?
 6       A    I know her as a student at Magruder High
 7  School and as president of the student government
 8  association.
 9       Q    What was the nature of your contacts with
10  Gennie Maricle?
11       A    Positive contacts, we interacted in her
12  role as president of the student government
13  association, we interacted on a fairly regular basis
14  about concerns or issues that she brought to me.
15            She also was involved in organizing a
16  number of activities.  I also know her as I member of
17  the academic team, I saw her participate in that
18  activity and as a softball player.
19       Q    Based upon your contacts with Gennie as a
20  student at Magruder and her participation in these
21  various functions, did you come to from an opinion as
22  to her character for truth and veracity?
00009
 1            MR. RAND:  Objection.
 2       A    Yes.
 3  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 4       Q    What is your opinion as to Gennie Maricle's
 5  character for truth and veracity?
 6            MR. RAND:  Objection.
 7       A    My immediate reaction is that I also saw
 8  Gennie as an honest, forthright person.
 9  BY MR. SUNTUM:
10       Q    What other adjectives would you use to
11  describe Gennie Maricle if you were trying to
12  describe her to someone that did not know her?
13            MR. RAND:  Objection.
14       A    I suppose the first thing that comes to my
15  mind is someone who is serious, focused.  Those are
16  the words that come to mind.
17  BY MR. SUNTUM:
18       Q    Do you know Suzanne Sutton?
19       A    Yes, I do.
20       Q    Can you describe your contacts or how you
21  came to know Suzanne Sutton?
22       A    Mrs. Sutton made an appointment to see me
00010
 1  early in my tenure at Magruder, I believe it was
 2  August, I don't know the date, because she wanted to
 3  talk to me about some concerns that she had, I
 4  believe was the way it was stated, some issues or
 5  concerns.
 6       Q    Did you have any contact with Mrs. Sutton
 7  separate and apart from her participation in this
 8  investigation or issues related to Mr. Hassler?
 9       A    Just incidentally as I would with any
10  parent at the school.  I would see her at various
11  events and that sort of thing.
12       Q    What are your duties and responsibilities
13  as a principal at Magruder high school?
14       A    How much time do we have?
15            My duties and responsibilities encompass
16  supervising staff, interacting with students
17  positively and for disciplinary purposes, although
18  first line discipline is usually the responsibility
19  of assistant principals; supervising the
20  instructional program, the extra activities program
21  and all related activities that go on there.
22       Q    How are the various teachers at Magruder
00011
 1  supervised by the administrative staff there?
 2       A    A number of ways:  Direct supervision
 3  includes both casual and formal interaction,
 4  classroom observations as well as input directly from
 5  the teacher about things that are going on in the
 6  classroom.  There is also very specific guidelines
 7  for supervision by assistant principals and resource
 8  teachers.  Resource teachers are in a very tenuous --
 9  tenuous is the wrong word -- they are in a delicate
10  position.  They supervise but they don't evaluate
11  teachers so they give input, feedback, they probably
12  know more about what is going on in the classroom on
13  a daily basis than anybody else in the school.
14       Q    Resource teachers?
15       A    Yes.
16       Q    Who is the resource teacher in charge of
17  math?
18       A    Wayne Bussard.
19       Q    So Mr. Bussard doesn't teach but
20  supervises?
21       A    He does both, he does some years three
22  classes and some years four classes and he supervises
00012
 1  teachers at the same time.
 2       Q    When did you first receive your appointment
 3  as principal at Magruder?  Do you remember what month
 4  in the summer?
 5       A    I believe it was late June.  I don't know
 6  the date offhand.
 7       Q    What was the process that you went through
 8  in transitioning in at Magruder?
 9       A    I met with the former principal several
10  times, talked about issues and concerns, talked about
11  positive programs that were in existence and because
12  I had been there as assistant principal we talked a
13  bit about changes that had occurred in the school
14  from the time I was there previously.
15       Q    That outgoing principal was Jack Gramm?
16       A    Right.
17       Q    Was he the principal when you were there as
18  assistant principal?
19       A    Yes, he was.
20       Q    Were there any issues or concerns raised by
21  him with respect to Mr. Hassler when you came in?
22       A    No.  May I add to that?  Not that I recall.
00013
 1  We talked about staff in general.  I don't recall him
 2  mentioning Mr. Hassler's name in that conversation.
 3       Q    What are your responsibilities as principal
 4  with respect to appointing various coaches for the
 5  athletic teams in the school?
 6       A    First line involvement with the coaches is
 7  always in the hands of the athletic director, he
 8  comes for approval and he works with one of the
 9  assistant principals who helps makes supervisory
10  decisions about athletic programs and coaches.
11       Q    What process did you undergo in evaluating
12  or approving appointments as coaches for your first
13  year as principal at Magruder?
14       A    Only worked specifically with positions
15  that were vacant, talked with the athletic director
16  about vacancies we had and how to fill them and
17  participated in some interviews with him for
18  vacancies.
19       Q    Did you undertake evaluations whether or
20  not coaches who had positions would be continued?
21       A    They had been evaluated when I got there,
22  they are evaluated in the spring by the principal and
00014
 1  athletic director, that had been done.
 2       Q    So you didn't undertake any evaluation
 3  yourself?
 4       A    Not that I recall anything specifically.
 5       Q    Well Mrs. Sutton came to you in
 6  August 1997, do you recall what her concerns were and
 7  why she was making contact with you?
 8       A    Some of them.  She was concerned because
 9  she felt that there were things going on on the
10  softball team specifically that she thought were
11  inappropriate, and by that I mean she didn't like the
12  interaction between the coaches and students, players
13  I should say; and that she had some concerns about
14  specific issues around students being permitted to be
15  excused from playing and/or practicing for academic
16  reasons or other related reasons.  Generally that was
17  the tone of the conversation, concern about the
18  coach's interaction with the students.
19       Q    Do you recall where that meeting took
20  place?  Was that in your office?
21       A    Yes, it was.
22       Q    Do you recall how long it took?
00015
 1       A    No, I don't.
 2       Q    Do you recall the approximate length of
 3  time?  Was this a conversation in passing or was it a
 4  substantive discussion?
 5       A    I wouldn't call it in passing, it was a
 6  conversation that took place but I don't really
 7  recall, it could have been half an hour, could have
 8  been 45 minutes.
 9       Q    What was the result of your conversation
10  with Mrs. Sutton in August 1997?
11       A    I recall saying pretty much the same thing
12  that I say to any parent that I meet with, that is, I
13  can hear the concerns, I can hear the questions and
14  issues.  If there is anything that is going to happen
15  as a result of the concerns, issues or questions,
16  that those concerns, issues or questions should be
17  put in writing.
18       Q    Why is that?
19       A    Because otherwise it's pretty much hearsay.
20  People come and give you, I get in the course of any
21  day, I get a number of people who stop me or make an
22  appointment to see me, pour out all sorts of
00016
 1  information, which is their opinion, their concern,
 2  their reaction and I have to think about the balance,
 3  substantiation and that sort of thing.  So I say to
 4  someone if you put it in writing I can perhaps deal
 5  with it and I can use that document as part of taking
 6  any action or further steps.
 7       Q    Is it fair to say that you didn't take any
 8  action based upon the information Mrs. Sutton
 9  provided you in August?
10       A    It's probably not fair to say that.  It
11  probably heightened my awareness and I tried to be
12  sure that my assistant principal, athletic director
13  and I were more aware of the situation and were
14  keeping a watchful eye on the situation.
15       Q    Do you recall specifically taking any
16  action as a result of Mrs. Sutton's conference with
17  you in August 1997?
18       A    Not as a direct result of that
19  conversation, no.
20       Q    One of the purposes of her conference was
21  to request that Mr. Hassler not be reappointed as
22  coach of the spring softball team in spring 1998, is
00017
 1  that correct?
 2       A    Perhaps, I don't know that that was
 3  specifically stated that way but we talked about her
 4  desire for that, yes.
 5       Q    Well I guess the question is, I am trying
 6  to clarify whether she was asking you to simply have
 7  Mr. Hassler improve or not to be reappointed.  What
 8  was her request of you as of August 1997?
 9       A    Ask me the question again, please.
10       Q    I'm trying to clarify whether or not she
11  assumed Mr. Hassler was going to be the coach and she
12  wanted some improvement made or she was asking you
13  not to appointment him as coach?
14       A    I really don't know what she thought as a
15  result of that conversation in terms of that.  He had
16  already been appointed.  He was appointed in the
17  spring.  I don't recall that I said anything to her
18  about any possibility of removing him as a result of
19  that conversation.  In fact what I said was if you
20  have specific issues to put in writing I would
21  welcome that, I would like to see that.
22       Q    Did you in fact ask her to put her concerns
00018
 1  in writing?
 2       A    Yes, I did.
 3       Q    Do you recall whether or not, is it your
 4  testimony then that Jack Gramm had reappointed
 5  Mr. Hassler as the coach for the following year prior
 6  to your taking over?
 7       A    I believe that's correct, yes.
 8       Q    Is Mr. Hassler aware of that?
 9            MR. RAND:  Did you say reappointed, Jack
10  Gramm reappointed?  Is that what you said?
11            MR. SUNTUM:  I did.
12            MR. RAND:  And you answered.
13       A    As far as I knew he has done that, yeah.
14  BY MR. SUNTUM:
15       Q    Did you undertake any review of that
16  appointment as a result of Mrs. Sutton's conference?
17       A    I guess the answer to your question depends
18  on what you mean by review of the appointment.
19       Q    What actions, if any, did you take with
20  respect to Mr. Hassler as a consequence of Suzanne
21  Sutton's conference with you in August 1997?
22       A    I don't recall that I took any overt
00019
 1  action.  I recall that I decided that I would think
 2  about the situation and I would monitor what was
 3  going on with the wrestling coaching season that was
 4  coming up, but I don't recall that I did anything
 5  specific about softball at that point.
 6       Q    Did you contact Mr. Grimsley, the athletic
 7  director, and ask him about Mr. Hassler and get any
 8  more specifics?
 9       A    I may have, I don't recall.  I can't say
10  that on such and such a date I had conversations with
11  Mr. Grimsley.  I have conversations with him
12  constantly about the coaching staff.
13       Q    Was it announced to the students that
14  Mr. Hassler would be the softball coach in the spring
15  of 1998?
16       A    There had been a list put out prior to
17  August stating who the coaches were for each season.
18       Q    Mr. Hassler was on that list as the
19  softball coach?
20       A    I don't remember, I think he was, but I am
21  not positive.  I don't know if I could go back and
22  look, it may have been edited, is that what you're
00020
 1  referring to, some list?
 2       Q    Just curious.  Mr. Hassler made the
 3  contention that he wasn't the coach until March 1998.
 4            MR. RAND:  1997 don't you mean?
 5  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 6       Q    No, '98.  He made a technical defense that
 7  he wasn't in violation of the clinic rules, that he
 8  wasn't really a coach at the time of the clinic.  I'm
 9  getting the flavor from you he was the coach
10  appointed by Jack Gramm and you didn't take steps to
11  refute that?
12       A    He was the coach, to my memory, the
13  preceding year and the '97/98 is an issue, I suppose.
14       Q    In any event, you received a letter from
15  Mrs. Sutton in November 1997?
16       A    Correct.
17       Q    And between the conference date in August
18  and November 1997 you don't have any recollection of
19  taking any action with respect to Mr. Hassler based
20  upon her complaints as expressed to you in the August
21  conference?
22       A    Nothing beyond what I have already said,
00021
 1  conversations with Mr. Grimsley, that sort of thing.
 2       Q    Did you have any conversations with Mrs.
 3  Sutton in August about how difficult it would be to
 4  remove Mr. Hassler?
 5       A    I said to her pretty much the same thing I
 6  tell all parents that come to me at the time with
 7  complaints about a coach or teacher and that is that
 8  it is not easy to remove somebody from a position and
 9  if in fact there was to be any action taken it would
10  be necessary to do a number of things, including
11  getting statements in writing and substantiating
12  allegations.  My memory is that I also said something
13  to the effect that Mr. Hassler is highly respected in
14  the community and that he would have a lot of support
15  from members of the community and that indeed is
16  often the case and is a part of the issue.  You're
17  not just looking at a person's performance when
18  you're looking at the person's involvement in a
19  school, you're looking at a whole persona and
20  community involvement beyond just that specific
21  action or that specific coaching situation.  So I
22  talked about those kinds of things in general.
00022
 1       Q    What is the difficulty in removing a coach?
 2       A    Well, when I remove a coach from the
 3  position you have to be able to say that the coach is
 4  in violation of something that the principal or the
 5  athletic director both find objectionable.  Removing
 6  a coach is much easier than removing a teacher, but
 7  it is not the same.  I would not be comfortable
 8  removing a coach without having a firm belief in my
 9  mind based on what my substantiation was.
10            (Exhibit Number 1 was marked for
11  identification and was retained by counsel.)
12  BY MR. SUNTUM:
13       Q    Mr. Nori, let me show you what has been
14  marked as Deposition Exhibit Number 1 and I will
15  represent to you that these are Mrs. Sutton's notes
16  of her conference with you in August 1997.  I would
17  ask you to take a moment to review this document
18  before I ask you any questions.
19       A    What does it say after number three, what
20  is the word that someone has written in there?
21       Q    Your guess is as good as mine.
22            MR. RAND:  For the record, Counsel, this is
00023
 1  document 262, is it not?
 2            MR. SUNTUM:  Yes.
 3       A    Is the second page a repeat of the second
 4  page?
 5  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 6       Q    I believe, if my representation, the first
 7  page would have been her notes to herself of things
 8  she wanted to discuss with you, and the second page
 9  would be the things that she actually did discuss
10  with you.
11            Have you had an opportunity to review it?
12       A    I skimmed it, yes.
13       Q    Those topics, were those the topics of your
14  conversation with Mrs. Sutton in August 1997?
15       A    I remember some of them, I don't remember
16  discussing all of those things or hearing about all
17  of those things.
18       Q    Let me direct your attention to the last
19  page of Exhibit 1, the paragraph saying Nori said
20  these things are consistent with the things he
21  observed eight years ago when he last worked there.
22  Did you make a comment like that?
00024
 1       A    I had heard some of the similar allegations
 2  about some of issues eight years ago when I worked
 3  there.
 4       Q    You also said that these notes reflect that
 5  you told her that it would be unpopular to remove him
 6  because of his activity in the community?
 7       A    I don't believe I used the word unpopular.
 8  I think what I said I said earlier in the deposition
 9  is what I said; that is, that he had a lot of support
10  in the community and it's difficult anytime someone
11  has a lot of support in the community.
12       Q    What knowledge did you have of Mr.
13  Hassler's support in the community as of August 1997?
14       A    Very general in terms of his involvement
15  with Lions Club, his being a member of the community,
16  his having children that have gone through schools
17  and other schools in the cluster, that sort of thing.
18       Q    You knew he was active in the community?
19       A    Yes, and I knew a lot of staff members had
20  interaction with him besides.  I shouldn't say I
21  knew, I assumed that a lot of staff members had
22  interaction with him besides daily interaction at
00025
 1  work related to the community activities.
 2       Q    These notes reflect that you told a story
 3  about some abusive coach your son had and how the
 4  community made a statement that he be removed.  Do
 5  you recall that?
 6       A    Yes.
 7       Q    What was the incident that you told Mrs.
 8  Sutton about?
 9       A    It was about a rec department coach.  A
10  coach who had said things about students to other
11  students that weren't appropriate, that sort of
12  thing.
13       Q    These notes go on to say that you told Mrs.
14  Sutton that you just denied Mr. Hassler something he
15  wanted and you didn't want to deny him this because
16  he wanted to coach his own daughters?
17       A    I see that it says that but I don't know
18  what that is in reference to.
19       Q    Do you recall having turned down a request
20  from Mr. Hassler for anything?
21       A    No, I can't say that I do.
22       Q    The next paragraph states that you told
00026
 1  Mrs. Sutton that Hassler is always sorry after
 2  something, do you recall the comment to that effect?
 3       A    I recall a conversation, in our
 4  conversation talking about Mr. Hassler being sorry
 5  after something has happened in the context of the
 6  incident with the young lady, Christine, that is
 7  mentioned in item 13 above.  I don't recall those
 8  being my words, that he's always sorry afterward, but
 9  that he apologizes after something happens, something
10  along that line.
11       Q    What knowledge did you have of the
12  Christine incident as reflected in item 13?
13       A    Nothing until this meeting.
14       Q    Then how did you know that Mr. Hassler was
15  sorry after that incident?
16       A    I didn't mean to imply that I was using
17  that as an example.  That he apologized after things
18  had occurred was what I was agreeing with.  I don't
19  recall that these were my words.  This meeting
20  happened a long time ago and I don't have the same
21  knowledge.  There was conversation about his being
22  sorry after an event happened and I was using the
00027
 1  Christine incident as an example.
 2       Q    In any event you made it clear to Mrs.
 3  Sutton if she wanted anything to be done she would
 4  have to put the complaints in writing?
 5       A    That was my intention, that I needed
 6  something in writing.
 7       Q    What was your experience with Mr. Hassler
 8  from eight years prior as assistant principal at
 9  Magruder?
10       A    In terms of what?
11       Q    In terms of having contact or knowledge
12  that you gained about him?
13       A    The general impression that I had was that
14  Mr. Hassler was a traditional teacher, that there
15  were some people that had questions about his
16  competence, but that I didn't have any firsthand
17  knowledge of incompetent kinds of behaviors.  In fact
18  I don't know that I had ever observed him, but I had
19  heard hearsay kinds of things.
20            What I think I said to Mrs. Sutton at that
21  meeting in August was that the kinds of things she
22  was reporting to me were the kinds of things that had
00028
 1  been talked about previously, but I didn't have any
 2  substantiation of that.  In fact, since that time
 3  when I looked back in the files I have seen very
 4  little substantiation of that.
 5       Q    As a principal of a high school, if these
 6  types of hearsay statements come to your attention,
 7  what do you do about them?
 8       A    That's a good question.  One of the things
 9  that you do about the classroom part is that you have
10  the resource teacher look at the teaching, what's
11  going on on a daily basis.  Anybody can, when there
12  is a single observation, anybody can -- that's not
13  true -- let me restate that.
14            When there is observation there is an
15  opportunity for the teacher to perform, and so --
16       Q    You mean put on a show for the observer?
17       A    One single slide of what is going on then
18  in the classroom.  The resource teacher has daily
19  interaction with the teacher, in and out of the
20  classroom, sees what's going on and the resource
21  teacher gives a sense whether or not what's happening
22  in the classroom is acceptable.  And when I talked
00029
 1  with Mr. Bussard he said that he does find what's
 2  going on in the classroom to be acceptable.
 3       Q    Did you find or was Mr. Bussard aware that
 4  Mr. Hassler tells jokes frequently in his classroom?
 5       A    I don't know.  He didn't mention that and I
 6  didn't ask him that.
 7       Q    Are you aware that Mr. Hassler occasionally
 8  tells blonde jokes?
 9       A    No, I wasn't.
10       Q    Would it surprise you that Mr. Hassler
11  testified in his deposition that he does in fact tell
12  blonde jokes in his class?
13       A    Would that surprise me?
14       Q    Yes.
15       A    I really don't know how to respond.
16            MR. RAND:  Objection to the question.
17  BY MR. SUNTUM:
18       Q    Is that consistent with what you would
19  expect from Mr. Hassler based on your knowledge of
20  his personality and character?
21       A    That he told jokes or blonde jokes?
22       Q    Blonde jokes.
00030
 1       A    I don't have knowledge of his doing that.
 2       Q    If he did do that, this is something that
 3  he has been able to keep quiet from the
 4  administration?
 5       A    Something that I'm not aware of.
 6            MR. RAND:  Objection.
 7  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 8       Q    If you were aware of it, what steps would
 9  you take -- let me ask you first, do you see anything
10  inappropriate about it?
11       A    Yes.
12       Q    What steps would you take to investigate it
13  or put an end to it if you became aware of it?
14       A    I would meet with the teacher, ask him what
15  was happening, talk to the resource teacher and tell
16  the teacher to stop.  Might put that in writing if I
17  felt that was appropriate if it reached that point.
18       Q    Isn't that one of the complaints that Mrs.
19  Sutton brought to your attention in August 1997?
20       A    I see that here.  I don't specifically
21  remember her talking about blonde jokes in the
22  meeting, no.  It was quite a long meeting and I don't
00031
 1  recall that she said that.
 2       Q    Do you recall having any discussions with
 3  Mr. Bussard about I want you to check out Mr. Hassler
 4  and find out what kind of jokes he was telling in the
 5  class?
 6       A    I didn't talk about jokes, I talked about
 7  the classroom performance and general concerns that
 8  she brought up.
 9       Q    What?
10       A    Instruction was happening as it should
11  happen, whether or not students were treated fairly
12  and whether or not there were comments being made
13  that were inappropriate.
14       Q    With respect to any of the specific
15  complaints that Mrs. Sutton brought to your
16  attention, you didn't raise them as specifics with
17  Mr. Bussard to investigate?
18       A    I don't remember specifically what my
19  conversation with him was about.  I have given you a
20  general view of what my conversation was, I don't
21  remember the specifics.
22       Q    Do you believe it would be appropriate for
00032
 1  a high school math teacher to tell religious jokes?
 2       A    No.
 3       Q    Do you believe it would be appropriate for
 4  a high school math teacher to tell sexist jokes?
 5       A    No.
 6       Q    Do you believe it is appropriate for a high
 7  school math teacher to tell delicate sex jokes or
 8  even innocent sex jokes?
 9       A    No.
10       Q    Are you aware that Mr. Hassler has admitted
11  to telling those types of jokes in his deposition?
12            MR. RAND:  Objection.
13       A    How would I be?
14  BY MR. SUNTUM:
15       Q    So that information has not gotten back to
16  you?
17       A    No.
18       Q    If that information was to be made
19  available to you what actions would you take with
20  respect to that information?
21       A    Well, what I said previously, I would talk
22  with the teacher and talk with his immediate
00033
 1  supervisor and make it clear that that is not
 2  acceptable in the classroom.
 3       Q    Let me show you a copy of the deposition
 4  that Mr. Hassler gave in this action and direct your
 5  attention to page 13 of that deposition.  Page 13, on
 6  line 7, Mr. Hassler was asked the question would you
 7  tell jokes in class and the answer is,
 8  "Occasionally."
 9            He was asked would you tell blonde jokes in
10  class and the answer was occasionally.
11            He was asked the question, "Would you tell
12  sexist jokes in class," and his answer was, "As in?
13  Sex jokes, there are varying degrees of sex jokes,
14  innocent sex jokes, yes."
15            Do you consider the telling of those types
16  of jokes appropriate for a high school math teacher
17  at Magruder?
18            MR. RAND:  Objection.
19       A    I have already said no to that.
20  BY MR. SUNTUM:
21       Q    Is it also your testimony that telling
22  blonde jokes would be inappropriate for a high school
00034
 1  math teacher at Magruder?
 2            MR. RAND:  Objection.
 3       A    Yes.
 4  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 5       Q    We would be glad to provide you with a
 6  complete copy of Mr. Hassler's deposition but with
 7  respect to this information saying that these
 8  incidents have been admitted by him, what actions
 9  would you take as a principal to correct the
10  behavior?
11       A    The same as I said before, the first thing
12  I would do is talk with the teacher, talk about the
13  kinds of jokes that he is talking about.  There are
14  always very appropriate ways of using humor in the
15  classroom and I would make clear in my meeting with
16  the teacher that there is some humor that is not
17  acceptable and inappropriate.  If I felt necessary I
18  would follow up that meeting with a summary, writing
19  the teacher what my expectations would be in the
20  future.
21       Q    Is it your testimony that you are
22  completely unaware that Mr. Hassler had a reputation
00035
 1  for telling these types of jokes?
 2       A    Blonde and sex jokes?  I have never heard
 3  that before.
 4       Q    Would you be surprised if in fact that's
 5  what his reputation is among the students at
 6  Magruder?
 7            MR. RAND:  Objection.
 8       A    Yes, I would be surprised.  I hadn't heard
 9  that before.
10  BY MR. SUNTUM:
11       Q    Is it your testimony that no assistant
12  principals or teachers or students ever brought this
13  information to your attention?
14       A    Blonde jokes and sex jokes again?
15       Q    Inappropriate jokes of whatever nature?
16       A    Yes, it's my testimony that nobody brought
17  inappropriate jokes to my attention.
18       Q    Orally or anonymously?
19       A    I can't think of anything that was brought
20  to my attention, no.
21       Q    Mrs. Sutton brought these incidents to your
22  attention in August 1997, correct?
00036
 1       A    Well, as I said, some of the things on her
 2  note from the meeting I recall her talking to me
 3  about and some I don't.  I don't really specifically
 4  recall any comments about jokes in that meeting, is
 5  there a comment here on her notes?
 6       Q    Paragraph five, page two, paragraph number
 7  five, number five, where Mrs. Sutton reflects that
 8  she told you that Mr. Hassler makes disturbing
 9  comments in class, monkey jokes about black students,
10  referring to Asian students as egg rolls, abusive
11  comments about a deaf catcher, male students as
12  phalgos, sexual behavior, body parts, excessive
13  alcohol consumption, women's undergarments making
14  sexually inappropriate comments, both male and female
15  students told her of their discomfort in his class
16  for many years.
17       A    I remember the part referring to the
18  catcher, I remember that part very well.  I don't
19  recall her talking to me about alcohol consumption
20  and some of the other things listed there.  I have a
21  vague memory of her making the statement about
22  inappropriate comments about students and I do recall
00037
 1  that that was part of my conversation with
 2  Mr. Bussard later, did he see that type of thing
 3  going on.  You have been focusing on jokes and I
 4  don't recall much of my conversation with Mrs. Sutton
 5  focusing on his joking with students about things.
 6  Some of the things I don't have any recollection of
 7  her commenting, women's undergarments for example, I
 8  don't remember her saying that to me at all.
 9       Q    You don't recall her telling you how he
10  would come into class and take the ad for the Wonder
11  Bra and talk about it with his class?
12       A    No, I don't.
13       Q    Are you aware that Mr. Hassler refers to
14  the sign and cosign curve as the Dolly Parton curve?
15       A    Never heard that before.
16       Q    Are you aware that he considers that
17  appropriate in light of that?
18       A    No.
19       Q    Do you consider that appropriate?
20       A    No, I don't.
21       Q    Do you recall whether or not you pulled Mr.
22  Hassler's file and reviewed it after your conference
00038
 1  with Mrs. Sutton?
 2       A    I didn't do that in August but I did do
 3  that in the fall.
 4       Q    Before or after you received her letter?
 5       A    I believe it was before.
 6       Q    What was the purpose of pulling the file
 7  for review?
 8       A    To look at the evaluations, to look at the
 9  kind of things reflected, the evaluations, any
10  questions raised in the summary comments.  I did that
11  with more than just Mr. Hassler, I did it with a
12  number of teachers' files.
13       Q    Did you see anything in the file that would
14  reflect this type of conduct in the classroom?
15       A    Nothing specific or recent I guess is the
16  best way to say it.
17       Q    Do you have any explanation how a teacher
18  could teach for 25 years in the Montgomery County
19  school system and use humor such as this without it
20  ever becoming known to his administrative superiors?
21       A    I don't know.  I don't know how to respond
22  to that.  I think that there are times when
00039
 1  information is passed along as a matter of hearsay
 2  and there are times when information is specifically
 3  hidden.  I'm not aware of either of those being the
 4  case here.
 5       Q    Do you know what actions Mr. Bussard took
 6  to supervise Mr. Hassler?
 7       A    You mean generally speaking?
 8       Q    Generally or specifically.
 9       A    He does classroom observations, I don't
10  know if he has done one this year yet or not, but he
11  does formal classroom evaluations, especially in
12  evaluation years he does five or ten minutes in the
13  classroom to see how things are going.  This isn't
14  just for Mr. Hassler, any math teacher, he has
15  conversations with the math teachers about the
16  content and curriculum.
17       Q    With respect to evaluating the teaching
18  competency of teachers, how is that conducted?
19       A    The current system requires that at least
20  three observations be done in an evaluation year and
21  that at least two of those three be done by an
22  administrator either the assistant principal or
00040
 1  principal and the resource teacher does one.
 2       Q    Is that it?
 3       A    That is the formal written evaluation
 4  piece, yes.
 5       Q    And those observations are the ones where
 6  Mr. Hassler would be told in advance that he is going
 7  to be observed?
 8       A    Not always, no, no.  They're not always
 9  announced.  I did one just the other day in Mr.
10  Hassler's class that was not announced.
11       Q    Did he tell any jokes while you were there?
12       A    No, he didn't.
13       Q    Were there any other steps taken since you
14  have become principal of Magruder to investigate Mr.
15  Hassler's competency as a teacher other than the
16  formal observations?
17       A    Well, I told you there are always informal
18  observations that are done by the resource teacher
19  and assistant principal and myself and just daily
20  interactions of comments that are made by the
21  resource teacher about things like testing programs,
22  final exams, that sort of thing.  Those are not
00041
 1  formal documented pieces of evaluation but they
 2  certainly help form impressions.
 3       Q    Do all math students or students at
 4  Magruder take country wide math exams?
 5       A    No, it depends on the subject area.
 6  Algebra is county wide but precalculus is not.
 7       Q    With respect to algebra, does Mr. Hassler
 8  teach algebra?
 9       A    Currently Mr. Hassler is not teaching
10  algebra this semester.
11       Q    Has he taught algebra in the past while you
12  have been principal at Magruder?
13       A    I don't know if he taught algebra at
14  Magruder last year.  I would have to check the
15  schedule.
16       Q    When the county wide exams are done is
17  there an analysis of the students?
18       A    There is no prescribed analysis but an
19  informal.
20       Q    Do you know whether or not an informal
21  analysis was done to evaluate the performance of Mr.
22  Hassler's students on the exams?
00042
 1       A    Do I know if it has been done?
 2       Q    Yes.
 3       A    No, I don't the know.
 4       Q    Who makes the precalculus exams?
 5       A    Who writes the exam?
 6       Q    Yes.
 7       A    It's done by the teachers that teach
 8  precalculus, they work together to formulate the
 9  exams.
10       Q    So the teachers, if they haven't covered a
11  specific topic area have the ability to simply not
12  test that area?
13       A    I believe so, yes.
14       Q    So is it your testimony that you as
15  principal at Magruder don't have any information as
16  to how well Mr. Hassler's algebra students have
17  performed in the county wide algebra exams in
18  comparison with other math teachers at Magruder?
19       A    I don't have that off the top of my head.
20  I have the ability to create reports, look that up
21  and do that analysis.
22       Q    That is not something that you have done to
00043
 1  date?
 2       A    Not something that I have done recently.
 3  Not something that I have done at Magruder on Mr.
 4  Hassler's class.
 5       Q    In spite of complaints brought up of his
 6  competency as a teacher, that investigation has not
 7  been conducted by you?
 8       A    I don't know what you mean by
 9  investigation?
10       Q    If you were principal of a high school,
11  concerns are brought to your attention about a
12  teacher's competency in the subject matter --
13       A    Correct.
14       Q    -- you have testified that there are formal
15  observations that can we done and have been done, and
16  informal observations that can be done and have been
17  done?
18       A    Correct.
19       Q    My question now, is there not some
20  objective ability to measure the performance of his
21  students relative to other students at Magruder and
22  the answer is apparently yes, by comparing the
00044
 1  performance?
 2       A    Yes.
 3       Q    That evaluation or analysis has not been
 4  done?
 5       A    I have not personally done it, no.
 6       Q    Are you aware of anyone at Magruder that
 7  has done it?
 8       A    In general I ask the resource teacher if he
 9  has concerns and he does do an analysis with the
10  teacher, but I don't have that documentation in front
11  of me.
12       Q    Do you know whether or not Mr. Bussard has
13  undertaken that analysis?
14       A    I don't know.  I believe he has, but I'm
15  not sure.
16       Q    If he has you are not aware of it?
17       A    I guess that would be correct, yes.
18       Q    There is also a concern raised by Mrs.
19  Sutton about grades being given by Mr. Hassler out of
20  favoritism, was there not?
21       A    Yes, that was in conjunction with softball.
22       Q    What records are there that can be reviewed
00045
 1  to investigate whether or not grades that have been
 2  given were in fact earned?
 3       A    Teacher's grade book.
 4       Q    What is the teacher's grade book?
 5       A    Or grade program if it is on the computer.
 6  What happens to it?
 7       Q    What is the grade book or grade program?
 8       A    It is the teacher's record of grades that
 9  were given to the students on individual assignments.
10       Q    And what happens to the grade book at the
11  end of the semester or year?
12       A    It's put on file with the registra of the
13  school.
14       Q    Was any investigation undertaken to
15  determine whether or not any students' grades that
16  they received on the report cards were not justified
17  by the grade book?
18       A    I'm not sure how you would expect to find
19  that.  If you were the teacher and wanted to give a
20  student a grade they didn't earn, your records would
21  reflect the grade you gave, not what the student
22  thought they should have.
00046
 1       Q    If you are smart you are going to cover
 2  your tracks.
 3       A    I would think so, I would think the grade
 4  book would reflect every student's average grade, but
 5  I am not sure that that would prove a thing.  What I
 6  can say is that I did talk to kids about that and I
 7  didn't find any evidence of kids saying to me that
 8  they were given grades they didn't deserve or they
 9  thought other people were.
10       Q    You're not suggesting that a kid would tell
11  you that he or she would tell you they got a grade
12  they didn't deserve?
13       A    Sure, I am.  I am also telling you that
14  they didn't say that other kids got grades they
15  didn't deserve, they didn't tell me that.
16       Q    Are you assuming that a child that got a
17  grade she did not deserve would broadcast that to
18  other students?
19       A    No, but by the nature of the question
20  you're saying they told someone that.
21       Q    Did you check the grade books when this
22  issue was brought to your attention?
00047
 1       A    No, I did not.
 2       Q    Did you ask Mrs. Sutton what students she
 3  was referring to in her letter in order to be able to
 4  investigate whether or not those students earned the
 5  grades they were given?
 6       A    No.
 7       Q    Did you consider that a serious complaint,
 8  that a teacher is giving grades that aren't deserved?
 9       A    Yes.
10            (Exhibit Number 2 was marked for
11  identification and was retained by counsel.)
12  BY MR. SUNTUM:
13       Q    Let me show you what has been marked as
14  Deposition Exhibit Number 2 and ask you in fact if
15  prior to receiving Mrs. Sutton's complaint you
16  received that letter of complaint against Mr.
17  Hassler?
18       A    Yes, I did.
19       Q    That is a letter of complaint written by a
20  parent of a wrestler on Mr. Hassler's wrestling team?
21       A    Correct.
22       Q    What steps did you take to investigate that
00048
 1  complaint?
 2       A    Basically what I did was talk with Mr.
 3  Hassler and set up my expectations with him about
 4  what I expected to see happen with him as a wrestling
 5  coach.  I also met with the athletic director about
 6  it and I talked to this parent.
 7       Q    Was a copy of this letter shown to Mr.
 8  Hassler?
 9       A    No, the parent asked me not to do that.
10       Q    So what information did you give Mr.
11  Hassler as to the nature of the complaint or the
12  reason for your concern?
13       A    I told them I had a complaint about
14  wrestling, that I was concerned about yelling and
15  some of the other things cited in here, and my
16  expectation that we wouldn't have that behavior.  To
17  the best of my recollection that is what I said.
18       Q    What was Mr. Hassler's response?
19       A    That he could follow the guidelines that I
20  set up for him and that I would not see that kind of
21  thing happen in that wrestling season.
22       Q    Did he dispute that those things had in
00049
 1  fact happened in the past?
 2       A    I think when you say those kinds of things,
 3  he did not dispute shouting and yelling at kids.  He
 4  did not accept berating, humiliating, that's
 5  someone's value judgment, he didn't say that.  What
 6  he said was, "Oh, yeah, I do that," he had yelled at
 7  kids and he would stop doing that.
 8       Q    This letter, in addition to referencing
 9  this one parent's concerns, states in the last
10  sentence, second to last paragraph, that she feels as
11  do many -- and many is italicized -- other parents,
12  that it's time for Mr. Hassler to step aside as
13  coach.
14            Did you understand that there were other
15  parents that also had similar concerns about Mr.
16  Hassler that she was bringing to your attention?
17       A    When I spoke with her I asked if she could
18  give me other names, as I recall, and she mentioned
19  one or two other people and I spoke with at least
20  one, perhaps two, I'm not sure.  They didn't share
21  the feeling that he should step aside but they shared
22  the feeling that the yelling should stop, and it was
00050
 1  after that that I sat with him and we agreed on what
 2  the behavior would be for the rest of the season, or
 3  for the season, I should say.
 4       Q    Do you have any explanation as to why Mr.
 5  Hassler would have called Mrs. Wallace?
 6       A    No, I don't.
 7       Q    In any event, shortly after this letter was
 8  received you received Mrs. Sutton's letter of
 9  November 12th?
10       A    Correct.
11       Q    And she also in her letter reflects that
12  she's reflecting the concerns of many parents, as
13  opposed to just herself?
14       A    Yes.
15       Q    What was your reaction in getting a second
16  letter raising similar complaints against Mr. Hassler
17  less than two weeks apart?
18       A    I don't recall what my reaction was.  I can
19  generally say that I was concerned and that I talked
20  with my assistant principals about it and that I
21  asked them to be alert to any other issues or
22  concerns that come up, asked them if they had gotten
00051
 1  any specific complaints or concerns.
 2            (Exhibit Number 3 was marked for
 3  identification and was retained by counsel.)
 4  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 5       Q    With respect to the letter marked as
 6  Deposition Exhibit Number 1, can you explain why a
 7  copy of that letter was not in Mr. Hassler's
 8  employment file?
 9       A    Number 1?
10       Q    Yes.
11       A    No, I can't, I don't know why.
12            MR. RAND:  Exhibit 1, I have got, according
13  to my --
14  BY MR. SUNTUM:
15       Q    The letter marked as Exhibit Number 2, I'm
16  sorry.
17            MR. RAND:  What was the question?
18  BY MR. SUNTUM:
19       Q    Why a copy of that letter wasn't in Mr.
20  Hassler's employment file?
21       A    Items that go into employees' files have to
22  be items shared with the employee and they have to
00052
 1  initial them and I wasn't at liberty to do that.
 2       Q    What did you do with the file?
 3       A    I kept this letter in a separate
 4  confidential file for me for a time.  I'm not sure if
 5  it's still there or not, but I didn't keep it in
 6  relationship to Mr. Hassler, no.
 7            I had a subsequent conversation with Mrs.
 8  Wallace, who told me that she had talked with Mr.
 9  Hassler, and I don't recall if after that I had her
10  permission to be open with him in talking with him
11  about it or not, I don't recall where it went from
12  there.
13       Q    She called you that she was upset that Mr.
14  Hassler called her?
15       A    She called me one evening very upset, yes.
16  And I told her that I had not given him a copy of the
17  letter nor had I given it to anyone else.
18       Q    Let me show you what has been marked as
19  Deposition Exhibit Number 3, which is a copy of
20  Suzanne Sutton's letter, and ask you what did you do
21  when you received that letter.
22       A    My first reaction when I read this letter,
00053
 1  because copies had been sent to the president of the
 2  board of education, superintendent, director of
 3  school administration, the deputy superintendent and
 4  superintendent for school administration was to wait
 5  and see whether or not I got any reaction from any of
 6  them, any direction or immediate response.  So I
 7  waited a few days.  I don't recall the number of days
 8  but I know it was longer than it should have been
 9  because of other circumstances that arose personally
10  and professionally at the time.  I waited longer than
11  I should have.
12            My recollection from the August meeting
13  with Mrs. Sutton was that she was going to put into
14  writing her concerns so that I could act on them and
15  share them with Mr. Hassler.  I did that after a
16  time.  First I consulted with my immediate
17  supervisor, Mr. Glascoe, and I did that after a time.
18            When I told Mrs. Sutton I had shared that
19  with Mr. Hassler she was extremely upset, to say the
20  least.
21       Q    Had you explained to her that in order to
22  do a, quote, formal investigation, unquote, you would
00054
 1  have to disclose the letter to Mr. Hassler?
 2       A    Correct.
 3       Q    You had explained that to her prior to?
 4       A    I don't recall if I said it exactly that
 5  way.  What I said in August, I think, was if you put
 6  your concerns in writing then I will be able to take
 7  action or do something as a result of getting it in
 8  writing.
 9       Q    Have you received other complaints or
10  concerns about Mr. Hassler from other sources since
11  you have become principal at Magruder?
12       A    No.
13       Q    No other complaints at all?
14       A    No.
15            MR. RAND:  Counsel, are you referring to
16  Mrs. Wallace's and Mrs. Sutton's complaints?
17            MR. SUNTUM:  If that's his testimony.  He
18  has received no other complaints about Mr. Hassler.
19       A    Than what?
20  BY MR. SUNTUM:
21       Q    Than those two letters, is that your
22  testimony?
00055
 1       A    Those are the only two that I am aware of.
 2       Q    Were you instructed by Dr. Seleznow to
 3  conduct a thorough and complete investigation into
 4  the issues raised by Suzanne Sutton?
 5       A    Yes, I was with the specific focus on
 6  softball, on the softball issue, that is what I
 7  focused on.
 8       Q    Apart from what you focused on, did Dr.
 9  Seleznow or Mr. Glascoe instruct you to focus on
10  softball?
11       A    I believe so, but I don't know which one, I
12  can't give you quotes saying so-and-so told me that,
13  but my understanding was that I was to focus on the
14  softball issue.
15       Q    Did you also understand that Dr. Seleznow
16  and Mr. Glascoe were relying on you to conduct the
17  investigation?
18       A    The softball investigation or the
19  investigation that I did conduct?  Yes.
20       Q    Did you understand that they were relying
21  on you to conduct a complete and thorough
22  investigation?
00056
 1       A    Yes.
 2       Q    What steps did you take to investigate the
 3  issues raised by Mrs. Sutton in her letter of
 4  November 12th?
 5       A    Well, I met with my assistant principals,
 6  first of all, and I reviewed the letter with them and
 7  I talked with them about the softball issue
 8  primarily, and I -- let me back up a step.  I forgot
 9  a step I know I did.
10            I was directed by Mr. Glascoe, and I
11  assumed that Dr. Seleznow was involved, to respond to
12  the 17 items and I did that.  I responded to each of
13  the 17 items, and in doing so I gathered information
14  by talking to the assistant principals, talking with
15  Mr. Bussard when I needed to or with the athletic
16  director, and then I began after that to investigate
17  the softball issue, construct questions, created a
18  list of people that we thought we should talk to,
19  which included the softball players, other adults
20  that were privy to what went on on the softball
21  field, other parents, other coaches, athletic
22  director, referees, and we began interviewing people
00057
 1  and we interviewed people for a number of days
 2  gathering information, inviting them to put in
 3  writing if they chose to, their statements.  A few of
 4  them put it in writing, most of them answered the
 5  questions and made verbal statements.
 6            After that, we gathered that information, I
 7  wrote a summary memo concluding that there wasn't
 8  substantiation for the charges in the letter.  I was
 9  asked then to go back and ask specific questions of
10  the softball players, specifically did they lie or
11  were they told to lie by Mr. Hassler.  I did that.  I
12  went back to all the players.  I think I had one I
13  could never connect with, but I spoke to 13 or 12,
14  whatever the number is, of the softball players and
15  came back again with a statement that I cannot
16  conclude -- one said she was asked to lie, one said
17  he implied she should lie, one said she didn't know,
18  and the rest said he did not ask them to lie.
19       Q    Let me go back to the receipt of the
20  letter.  There was apparently a delay for personal
21  reasons between November 12th --
22       A    And I believe Thanksgiving week, week and a
00058
 1  half to two-week delay.
 2       Q    Around the Thanksgiving time period you
 3  received a directive from Mr. Glascoe to conduct an
 4  investigation?
 5       A    Yes.
 6       Q    I was unclear whether or not you were asked
 7  to respond to the 17 items and you said yes you did?
 8       A    That was the first thing I was asked to do,
 9  I did that.
10       Q    Are you suggesting that you did that prior
11  to your investigation or was that the first thing you
12  did, respond to the 17 or do the investigation first?
13       A    I responded to the 17 items first in
14  general terms, I believe, although --
15       Q    Did you do that in writing?
16       A    Yes, I did.
17       Q    Do you know where that writing is?
18       A    Yes, I do.  I thought you would have a copy
19  of that.  I don't know if I have it with me or not.
20       Q    Is this the writing you're referring to?
21       A    Yes.
22       Q    What's the date of that memo?
00059
 1       A    March 9th, so I have the sequence incorrect
 2  and I apologize.  I have things out of sequence.
 3            So the investigation was first and then
 4  this happened.  I thought it was the other way
 5  around.
 6       Q    What was the first thing that you
 7  mentioned?  You mentioned that you talked with your
 8  assistant principals?
 9       A    I believe that was the first thing I did.
10       Q    Who was that?
11       A    Walter Cross and Berniece LaGrande.
12       Q    What did Mr. Cross and Mrs. LaGrande have
13  to say about these complaints and their knowledge of
14  Mr. Hassler?
15       A    I don't recall specific things that they
16  said.  They said generally that they would help me
17  see what information they could find, talk to people
18  and help me gather information.  At some point I
19  asked them to help me write questions, what are the
20  questions that we could ask students and parents to
21  try to get at the information.  We talked about
22  investigation procedures, generally talked about
00060
 1  asking people to make statements inviting people to
 2  put things into writing if they chose to, that sort
 3  of thing.
 4       Q    You testified that the purpose of the
 5  questions you developed was to get at the
 6  information?
 7       A    To try to invite people to give us
 8  information related to these issues.
 9       Q    Why did you think trying to craft a few
10  questions was the best way to, quote, get at the
11  information?
12       A    Well, I'm not trained as an investigator, I
13  don't know how else I would go about it.  I was asked
14  to ask questions to see what I could uncover, so
15  that's what I did.
16       Q    Did Mr. Cross mention to you that Gennie
17  Maricle had spoken to him about these same issues?
18       A    I don't know if he mentioned that at the
19  time or not.  I knew that Gennie had talked with him
20  and I knew from Mrs. Sutton's note to me that she had
21  seen him as somebody that she could go to with
22  concerns and issues, but I don't recall anything
00061
 1  specific Gennie had said to him.
 2       Q    What was the attitude of you and Mr. Cross
 3  and Ms. LaGrande as you started the investigation?
 4       A    The attitude?
 5       Q    Were you trying to get to the truth of the
 6  complaints or see whether or not there was proof
 7  enough to remove him?
 8       A    We were trying to get to the truth.  We
 9  were trying to make sure we were looking at reality
10  when we looked at the concerns that were raised.  I
11  don't know if that's an attitude or not.  That's
12  certainly the way we tried to approach it.  We tried
13  to approach it honestly.
14       Q    Mrs. Sutton in her letter listed 17
15  different specific items, correct?
16       A    Hmm-hmm, that's correct.
17            (Exhibit Number 4 was marked for
18  identification and was retained by counsel.)
19  BY MR. SUNTUM:
20       Q    Let me show you what has been marked as
21  Deposition Exhibit Number 4 and ask you if that is a
22  copy of four questions that you crafted?
00062
 1       A    Yes.
 2       Q    And these questions you crafted --
 3            MR. RAND:  Excuse me, this is --
 4  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 5       Q    And those are the questions that you
 6  crafted on or about December 12th?
 7       A    Correct.
 8       Q    What was the, why did you believe that
 9  those four questions would get to the truth with
10  respect to the 17 separate items of the complaint?
11       A    The March 9th document that you showed me a
12  moment ago with 17 responses was written on
13  March 9th, but some of the work that went into that
14  had been done prior to writing these questions.
15            In other words, there were some responses
16  in that, point by point responses in that that
17  answered some of the 17 points.  If I could put that
18  side by side I could answer your question better
19  perhaps.
20       Q    Let me show you what has been marked as
21  Deposition Exhibit Number 5 and ask if you can
22  identify that.
00063
 1            (Exhibit Number 5 was marked for
 2  identification and was retained by counsel.)
 3       A    This is an update from Mike Glascoe
 4  concerning Mrs. Sutton's letter.
 5  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 6       Q    This is your testimony that this is a
 7  point-to-point response to the issues written by Mrs.
 8  Sutton?
 9       A    That's an update on the subject.  I'm
10  giving Mr. Glascoe some feedback on the items.
11       Q    But your 17 items here specifically refer
12  to the 17 points in Mrs. Sutton's original letter?
13       A    Yes, correct.
14       Q    You state that for item number 1, softball
15  clinic issues were addressed by the State?
16       A    MPASSA, hearing.
17       Q    Mr. Hassler was found in violation and
18  consequences were given.
19       A    Correct.
20       Q    What is that suppose to mean with respect
21  to the complaints Mrs. Sutton was raising?
22       A    In her complaints, in item number 1 she's
00064
 1  saying that basically that students were put in a
 2  position where if they didn't participate in the
 3  clinic they were not going to make the team, and they
 4  were not given the opportunity, perceived that the
 5  opportunity wasn't there to be considered fairly for
 6  the team if they didn't participate in the clinic.
 7  And my response to that is that they have been dealt
 8  with.  There was a violation that was found but it
 9  was not anything other than what it said in the Fred
10  Sparks letter which you have somewhere.
11       Q    So you didn't make any further
12  investigation into that complaint but you considered
13  it previously investigated and dealt with?
14       A    The complaint that there was a clinic, yes.
15  Some of the innuendo in this letter is reflected in
16  the questions that were discussed when we met with
17  the girls and in this item in the letter.
18       Q    With respect to paragraph number 5 of Mrs.
19  Sutton's letter, can you relate to me what your
20  understanding of the significance of that complaint
21  is?
22       A    My understanding of what Mrs. Sutton is
00065
 1  stating there is that she sees Mr. Hassler as someone
 2  who asks students to lie and specifically asked them
 3  to lie in this instance.
 4       Q    Do you understand the context of what he
 5  was asking the students to lie about?
 6       A    Of course.
 7       Q    And you believe your investigation was a
 8  reasonable effort to determine whether or not what
 9  Mrs. Sutton related to you was accurate?
10       A    I asked even students on the softball team
11  directly, were you asked to lie or were you asked to
12  cover up.  I can't remember what my words were, but I
13  asked each directly.  It is a fifth question not
14  listed.  I was asked to reconvene the investigation
15  and called every girl back in and asked them directly
16  were you asked to lie, and I did that.
17       Q    Is that how you posed the question to them,
18  did Mr. Hassler ask you to lie?
19       A    I believe the way I said it was was there
20  ever a time when Mr. Hassler asked you to lie about
21  anything or specifically about the softball, or do
22  you feel that you were expected to lie as a result of
00066
 1  conversations with Mr. Hassler, something along that
 2  line.  Either my assistant principal or I spoke to
 3  every girl and asked that question.
 4       Q    Did you make yourself aware of what Mr.
 5  Hassler's explanation was for the girls coaching
 6  kids, how that came to light, what he says he told
 7  the girls?
 8       A    I don't know what he said he told the
 9  girls, no.
10       Q    Do you know that players on his team went
11  to the clinic after Mr. Hassler knew it was
12  inappropriate for them to be there?
13       A    I assume that that's why he received the
14  sanctions from Mr. Sparks.
15            MR. RAND:  Objection.
16  BY MR. SUNTUM:
17       Q    Do you know what Mr. Hassler contends he
18  told them about whether or not they should come to
19  the clinic?
20       A    No, I don't.
21       Q    Did you ask the students what did Mr.
22  Hassler tell you about the clinic and whether or not
00067
 1  you should be there?
 2       A    No.  I was not investigating the clinic.
 3  That's what I mean when I say in number one, the
 4  softball clinic issues were addressed by the State.
 5  Investigation had been done, sanctions given, I
 6  wasn't reinvestigating, I wasn't in a position to do
 7  that.  It was inappropriate for me to do that.
 8       Q    Dr. Seleznow ask specifically after you
 9  completed your investigation, he felt that a teacher
10  knowing that something improper was going on would
11  instruct his students that if asked, give an
12  untruthful response in order to cover it was a very
13  serious issue.  And he specifically requested you
14  conduct investigation into that issue, did he not?
15       A    He asked me -- Dr. Seleznow didn't ask me
16  anything directly -- Mr. Glascoe asked me to ask the
17  girls specifically if they were asked to lie and I
18  did that.
19       Q    And it's your belief that calling a high
20  school girl in and asking them did your coach ask you
21  to lie was an appropriate methodology to find out
22  what Mr. Hassler did in fact tell them?
00068
 1            MR. RAND:  Objection.
 2  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 3       Q    Do you, based on your investigation, have
 4  any understanding as to what Mr. Hassler did tell
 5  them?
 6       A    About the clinic?
 7       Q    About whether they should be there?
 8       A    No, I don't know exactly what he did tell
 9  them.
10       Q    So you conducted an investigation, came
11  away without an understanding of what the coach did
12  in fact tell the students and have come to the
13  conclusion he did not tell them to lie?
14       A    I answered you earlier and if you look at
15  the record, I did not conduct an investigation as to
16  the clinic.  I questioned them specifically about the
17  lying because I was given direction to ask about
18  lying.
19       Q    How can you conclude an investigation about
20  whether or not he told students to lie and not have
21  an understanding of what he did tell them?  You're
22  telling me you don't know what he told them?
00069
 1       A    I am telling you that I was directed to ask
 2  the girls if he had them lie.  I did not conduct an
 3  investigation about the clinic, that had been done at
 4  the State level and he received sanctions.  I don't
 5  understand why you think that I would have conducted
 6  an investigation of the clinic.
 7       Q    I am not suggesting that you should have
 8  conducted an investigation about the clinic, I'm
 9  asking whether you conducted an investigation whether
10  or not Mr. Hassler told his players to lie?
11       A    I did.
12       Q    The context of that had to do with the
13  clinic, so you can't necessarily get away from the
14  clinic if you were visiting whether or not he told
15  any of them to lie?
16       A    In fact the context in which I presented
17  the question didn't include the clinic.  The context
18  was was there ever a time, and that's the way I dealt
19  with it.
20       Q    As we sit here today you still don't know
21  what Mr. Hassler told his players?
22       A    No, I don't.
00070
 1       Q    So you cannot testify that he didn't tell
 2  them to lie?
 3       A    No, I can't.  I can only testify to what
 4  the girls told me.
 5       Q    What information did you have that $35 was
 6  a fair price for the items reflected in number 6?
 7       A    I gave the athletic director the
 8  information about what was paid for and asked him to
 9  tell me what a fair price would be, I told him what
10  had been charged and was that reasonable and he said
11  yes.
12       Q    Did you find out the cost?
13       A    I asked him to do that.  He came back to me
14  and said that was a fair price, those items were
15  priced fairly.
16       Q    Do you know whether or not they were marked
17  up?
18       A    What do you mean?
19       Q    What the actual cost to Magruder or Mr.
20  Hassler was for those items?
21       A    I don't know that off the top of my head
22  but I can substantiate that for you.  I was
00071
 1  comfortable with the response I got from the athletic
 2  director.
 3       Q    Did you consider what has come to be known
 4  as the Christine incident a minor incident?
 5       A    I did not consider it to be a minor
 6  incident when it was reported to me.  Her father and
 7  Christine, however, considered it to be a minor
 8  incident by their own comments to my assistant
 9  principals and to me.
10       Q    You are aware that they are reluctant to be
11  involved in this, they may have been down playing?
12       A    I am aware any number may be down playing
13  and reluctant.  That is the nature of this kind of
14  issue.
15       Q    How did you investigate the several
16  complaints about the atmosphere and the nature of how
17  Mr. Hassler ran his practices and whether or not he
18  yelled excessively or berated or humiliated players
19  rather than educating them in an appropriate manner?
20            MR. RAND:  Objection.
21       A    We asked the girls if they felt
22  uncomfortable and we gave them an opportunity as we
00072
 1  interviewed them to tell us about situations that
 2  might have come up.  Was there, you know, number 3 on
 3  my question list, at any time during softball season
 4  did Mr. Hassler do or saying anything to make you
 5  feel uncomfortable, was the main question.  And the
 6  follow up would range, depending on the girl's
 7  response, from tell me more about what went on at
 8  practices or games or is there anything else you want
 9  to say?  We tried do follow up questions with an
10  invitation to say anything else you want to say.  We
11  also asked people that were in position to observe
12  things at practices.  We talked to other coaches,
13  assistant athletic directors, people on and off the
14  field at various times and didn't get again anybody,
15  as I said in my responses, anybody that was
16  substantiating the allegations.
17  BY MR. SUNTUM:
18       Q    Do you believe you have an understanding of
19  how Mr. Hassler does conduct his practices or did
20  conduct his softball practices based on your
21  investigation?
22       A    Yes, I think I do.
00073
 1       Q    And what is your impression of how he
 2  conducted his practices?
 3       A    In the words of one of the young ladies,
 4  yeah, he is gruff and he yells, but he's not abusive.
 5  I think he probably has the girls, he probably yells
 6  at girls and responds loudly but not with the
 7  intention of putting people down and being abusive to
 8  people.  I have seen him conduct his wrestling
 9  practices, I would assume that they would be the same
10  kind of interaction and that it would be a range from
11  instruction to what I just described.
12       Q    Did you hear him talk about the five on two
13  when you observed his wrestling practices?
14       A    No, I did not.  I saw that in writing but I
15  have never heard that before.
16       Q    When you were observing wrestling practice
17  he didn't mention the five on two?
18       A    No.
19       Q    Do you believe it's an appropriate coaching
20  technique that if a player misplays the ball, to hit
21  a second ball to the player to give her an
22  opportunity to correct it?
00074
 1       A    It can be, yes.
 2       Q    Do you think it is appropriate coaching
 3  technique that if a player misplays a ball to hit
 4  another ball to her harder than the first one?
 5       A    Depends on the situation.  I think it is
 6  very often the case of hitting the second one harder
 7  to challenge them more, but I don't know.
 8       Q    If they misplayed the first one, what is
 9  the theory behind hitting the second one harder?
10       A    Challenge them more, I suppose.  I don't
11  know, I have not been a softball coach.
12       Q    Have you had discussions with Mr. Hassler
13  about his verbalizing?
14       A    Yes, I have.
15       Q    What were the nature of those discussions?
16       A    More or less I have said to him that I have
17  had reports of his yelling, verbalizing
18  inappropriately with kids and that it needs to stop.
19  And he has said to me, yes, he knows that and he
20  would get that under control and he did that
21  successfully during wrestling season.
22       Q    I thought your testimony a few minutes ago
00075
 1  was that you hadn't received any other complaints
 2  about Mr. Hassler?
 3       A    I haven't received any written complaints
 4  about Mr. Hassler and oral complaints about
 5  verbalizing or yelling would come from parents or
 6  kids.  I have heard from, generally from other staff
 7  members that he yells.  He has said it to me, we have
 8  had the discussion a number of times, "Yeah, I yell
 9  at kids."
10            "Stop."  I don't think what I am saying is
11  in contradiction to what I said before at all.
12       Q    When did he stop yelling at kids?
13       A    He was successful during the wrestling
14  season last year of having his behavior be under
15  control.  In fact I had a conversation with Mrs.
16  Wallace, the woman who wrote the other letter, who
17  said yes, things were better, things were under
18  control.
19       Q    Why would you have conversations with Mr.
20  Hassler on several occasions about his yelling if no
21  one was complaining?
22            MR. RAND:  Objection.  That's not what he
00076
 1  testified to.
 2       A    I had conversations with Mr. Hassler on
 3  several occasions about his coaching.  In the context
 4  of those conversations if yelling came up, I would
 5  bring up to him or he would comment to me about it.
 6  I would repeat to him the admonition about it.  We
 7  talked about the progress in wrestling and that is
 8  the context in which it came up.
 9            I have one addition.  There are, at the end
10  of the softball season there were some complaints
11  that were made by students and parents which caused
12  me to go back and reconsider my decision to remove
13  Mr. Hassler as coach.  In the context had I ever had
14  complaints, I was thinking chronologically and not
15  jumping ahead at that point.  So yes, there were some
16  about Mr. Hassler and I shared them with him.
17  BY MR. SUNTUM:
18       Q    How many parents raised complaints at the
19  end of the 1998 softball season?
20       A    I think I had four students and three
21  parents or three students and four parents, I don't
22  recall which was which.
00077
 1       Q    And was Mrs. Sutton one of the parents or
 2  three other parents?
 3       A    No, other parents.  And their complaints
 4  were basically that there was infighting on the team,
 5  that the girls were not cooperating and as the coach
 6  they felt he should have been intervening.
 7            It looked to me, it looked like he was
 8  feeling his hands were tied because of the previous
 9  investigation and scrutiny under which he was
10  operating, so he wasn't intervening and allowing this
11  to go on among the girls and that that caused
12  descension on the team and it caused the team not to
13  move ahead positively.
14            That was the crux of the complaint of the
15  girls and parents.  I followed that up and basically
16  I decided we had been through enough with softball
17  and he was not continuing as coach and I would remove
18  him as coach.
19       Q    The parents that you spoke to, were they
20  the parents of kids?
21       A    Three, a couple that were the parents of
22  one girl, and another parent that came with them,
00078
 1  parent of another girl.
 2       Q    So the students that came to you were the
 3  daughters?
 4       A    Children of those parents, yes.
 5       Q    And then there were additional students
 6  that came to you as well?
 7       A    No, there were three parents that came
 8  representing two girls and two girls that came along
 9  as moral support, so the answer is not no, yes.
10       Q    Did they come as a group?
11       A    Group.
12       Q    Did they contact you to schedule a
13  conference to discuss these issues?
14       A    Yes.
15       Q    Did you have any discussions with any other
16  parents about Mr. Hassler as a softball coach after
17  your decision not to reappoint him in the late summer
18  or early fall of this past year?
19       A    I don't recall any off the top of my head.
20       Q    Did the parents who came to you asking that
21  Mr. Hassler not be reappointed as coach ask for
22  confidentiality?
00079
 1       A    No.  And they didn't ask me to not
 2  reappoint him as coach.  They came to me with
 3  concern, and one of them in fact had talked to Mr.
 4  Hassler before he came to me so when I talked to Mr.
 5  Hassler he was well aware of it.
 6       Q    Who were these parents?
 7       A    One was Mr. and Mrs. Wilson.  Mr. Wilson
 8  had been a volunteer assistant coach, so he was very
 9  much aware of what went on in practice and game wise,
10  and I'm drawing a blank on the other one's name.  I'm
11  sorry, I can't think of who that was.
12       Q    With respect to number 12 in Suzanne
13  Sutton's letter, she complained that Mr. Hassler
14  frequently changed the times of his practices.  What
15  investigation did you undertake into that complaint?
16       A    I didn't investigate, I spoke with him and
17  told him that if that was happening that that wasn't
18  fair to the girls, that he needed to correct that.
19  And he explained to me when he did that why he did
20  that and said he would keep that to a minimum.  I
21  don't think it's real unusual for coaches to make
22  changes.  Maybe it's unusual or perhaps not very
00080
 1  thoughtful to do it suddenly or at the last minute,
 2  but I asked him not do it and he said he would stop
 3  doing that.
 4       Q    Well if he conceded that it was happening
 5  and stated that it would stop happening, why did you
 6  reflect in your memo of March 9th that no indication
 7  of this problem was discovered?
 8       A    My recollection is that what I'm referring
 9  to in number 12 on my memo was the last part of his,
10  of her statement refusing permission for girls to
11  leave practices, unscheduled extensions of practices
12  and its effect on jobs or appointments or school
13  business.  I didn't find anybody that said that was a
14  major problem.  I in fact, in giving him direction,
15  was very specific about Gennie.  I told him that he
16  needed to allow her maximum room to get to academic
17  appointments and other appointments.
18            In fact the parents who complained at the
19  end of the season complained that some girls were
20  allowed to leave practices so much that practice
21  couldn't be conducted.  So I got conflicting
22  information and that came after this March 9th memo.
00081
 1       Q    What students did you ask about his
 2  extension of practices and the impact on their
 3  ability to schedule other matters after practice?
 4            MR. RAND:  I'm sorry?
 5       A    I don't know.
 6            MR. RAND:  I didn't hear the question.
 7       A    My answer is I don't know.  And when I say
 8  I, my assistant principals asked questions too, so it
 9  may be that one of them reported that to me, I don't
10  recall.
11            Number fifteen on here refers to that,
12  excusing students for practices and that sort of
13  thing too.
14  BY MR. SUNTUM:
15       Q    You came away with the understanding that
16  he routinely excused players?
17       A    In fact that was substantiated later when
18  the parents came in, he excused students to the
19  extent that it caused problems with the practices,
20  Mr. Wilson said that as the volunteer assistant
21  coach.
22       Q    With respect to number 13, what
00082
 1  investigation did you take into the award of
 2  community service hours?
 3       A    Two things:  One was the questions that we
 4  asked the girls; and the other was that we asked our
 5  student coordinator about hours that had been
 6  registered for the mulch sale and there were very
 7  few, almost none.
 8       Q    Do you know what hours were registered?
 9       A    Number?
10       Q    Yes.
11       A    No, I don't.
12       Q    Did you look at the records?
13       A    No, I asked the coordinator to report to me
14  and she did.
15       Q    In what form did she report to you,
16  writing?
17       A    Verbally.
18       Q    Did she go on a student-by-student basis
19  how many hours were awarded for what days, or did she
20  just say there weren't very many hours?
21       A    When she reported to me?
22       Q    Yes.
00083
 1       A    She said there were very few reported hours
 2  for the mulch sale and told me she could get specific
 3  numbers if needed.
 4       Q    And did you ask for specific numbers?
 5       A    No, I didn't, I didn't think it was
 6  necessary.
 7       Q    Number 14, the accusation applies to
 8  softball as well as wrestling, told members of the
 9  team as well as his math class to choose the grade
10  they wanted and gave it to them.  What investigation
11  did you undertake in that?
12       A    My recollection is that I couldn't find any
13  evidence of that.  I say in 14, no evidence that the
14  report in this accusation was discovered.  I don't
15  know, I asked specific questions, I don't know how
16  you prove that, even if you ask a direct question do
17  you get the right answer, so I'm unsure.  No evidence
18  of that accusation was discovered.  I don't think I
19  have --
20       Q    Did you consider that serious?
21       A    Of course, but how do you investigate it?
22       Q    Did you ask Mrs. Sutton which students she
00084
 1  was referring to?
 2       A    I don't recall if I did or not.
 3       Q    Did you pull the record books to see if
 4  they were consistent with the grade reflected on the
 5  report cards?
 6       A    You have already asked me that, I said no.
 7       Q    I believe 16 we have already discussed,
 8  that you're not aware of what Mr. Hassler told his
 9  students with respect to the clinic so you don't have
10  any response to that?
11       A    Correct.
12       Q    Did you ask Mrs. Sutton which student she
13  was referring to when she put the quotations in there
14  at the end of number 16?
15       A    No, I did not.
16       Q    Is there a reason why you didn't?
17       A    I can't say there is a specific reason, I
18  can say there was a general sense on my part that
19  after my having shared this with Mr. Hassler it was
20  not a corroborative effort anymore.  I'm not sure
21  Mrs. Sutton really wanted to hear very much from me
22  anymore, so I avoided doing that sort of thing,
00085
 1  perhaps wrongly so, but I did avoid it.  It was
 2  uncomfortable.
 3       Q    If I understand your response to the last
 4  question, you decided on your own that Mrs. Sutton
 5  might not be willing to help in this investigation so
 6  you did not ask for her assistance?
 7       A    That's correct.
 8       Q    Did she ever indicate to you that she was
 9  not willing to help?
10       A    No.
11       Q    Did she ever indicate to you that she
12  wished to participate?
13       A    I don't know if she said those exact words.
14  She sent me a note at one point saying that she was
15  hopeful that it would go well, something along that
16  line, something along that line.  I didn't save it.
17       Q    You didn't advise Mrs. Sutton what the
18  results of the investigation was until February?
19       A    That's right.  I was operating, I was
20  operating in a way that made me very unhappy because
21  it took so long, but it was in reality just a small
22  piece of the job that I was doing at the time.
00086
 1       Q    Do you deny that Mrs. Sutton offered to
 2  help repeatedly during that period of time?
 3       A    I can't deny that but I can't say that I
 4  recall her offering repeatedly.
 5       Q    Did you have any communication with Mrs.
 6  Sutton during this period of time from December
 7  through January and into February as to what the
 8  status of your investigation was and whether or not
 9  any additional information would be helpful?
10       A    No, I don't believe I did.  I had several
11  conversations, I believe, and as I said, I got one or
12  two notes from her during that period of time.
13       Q    When you met with her February 19th and
14  explained to her that you were reappointing Mr.
15  Hassler as coach, you also told her that you didn't
16  substantiate any of her complaints, is that correct?
17       A    That's correct.
18       Q    What was her reaction?
19       A    Surprise, I guess.  I don't know how I can
20  characterize her reaction.
21       Q    And didn't she tell you she had told you of
22  many people herself and knew of corroboration and how
00087
 1  could you possibly conduct an investigation and say
 2  otherwise?
 3       A    Yes, she did.
 4       Q    Did you share with her any of the notes or
 5  documents you had obtained during the course of the
 6  investigation to substantiate your representation
 7  that there was not corroboration?
 8       A    No, I didn't.
 9            MR. RAND:  Do you have copies of the
10  February 10, 1998 memo that I wrote?  Does that look
11  familiar to you?
12            (Exhibit Number 6 was marked for
13  identification and was retained by counsel.)
14  BY MR. SUNTUM:
15       Q    I will show you what has been marked as
16  Deposition Exhibit Number 6 and ask if you can
17  identify that document?
18       A    That's the memo I was referring to.  I
19  found the original, didn't know if a copy had been in
20  the file, thought perhaps it had been misplaced and
21  not in the file.  I found the original in my file and
22  wasn't sure you had that or not.
00088
 1       Q    Your memo of February 10th, what was the
 2  purpose?
 3       A    Mr. Glascoe asked for an update so I did.
 4       Q    Was your investigation complete at that
 5  point?
 6       A    I don't believe so.  I think we were still
 7  completing some of the pieces of it.
 8       Q    What did you do between February 10th and
 9  February 19th when you told Mrs. Sutton that Mr.
10  Hassler was going to be reappointed?
11       A    I believe it was in that time frame that we
12  went back and saw the students again and asked them
13  the question about lying, I think, if the time is
14  correct.
15            (Exhibit Number 7 was marked for
16  identification and was retained by counsel.)
17  BY MR. SUNTUM:
18       Q    Let me show you what has been marked as
19  Deposition Exhibit Number 7 and ask you if in fact
20  that's the memo that you wrote in response to your
21  follow up investigation on the lying issue?
22       A    Yes, it is.  So apparently the lying piece
00089
 1  of it, going back and asking the girls about the
 2  lying happened after the February 19th meeting.
 3       Q    So between February 10th and February 19th,
 4  do you know of anything that you did in furtherance
 5  of this investigation?
 6       A    Not offhand I don't.
 7       Q    What was the purpose of your follow up
 8  memorandum of March 9th if you had already completed
 9  your investigation and advised them of that on
10  February 10th?
11       A    To put this in writing at the request of my
12  supervisor, or to address each of the points in the
13  original letter in writing.
14       Q    Did you have any notes or records to
15  refresh your recollection when you created your
16  memorandum of March 9th?
17       A    I believe I still had my notes at that
18  point, yes.  I'm not sure at what point I destroyed
19  them.
20       Q    You have referred on a couple of occasions
21  to a three-page memo.  What is the three-page memo
22  that you're referring to?
00090
 1       A    I think you have it here.
 2            What was attached to this before it was
 3  torn apart?  I think there were pages in addition to
 4  this, no?
 5            The three-page memo included the questions
 6  as one of the pages and I don't recall -- let me look
 7  and see if I have it.
 8       Q    In any event your memo --
 9       A    February 10th is the memo I am talking
10  about.
11       Q    You are talking about that as being a
12  three-page memo?
13       A    Yes.
14       Q    Mr. Nori, with respect to the second parent
15  complaint after the spring 1998 season do you have
16  any records of that complaint?
17       A    No.
18       Q    Did you refresh your recollection as to who
19  that parent is?
20       A    No, I didn't.  I don't think I even have
21  her name.  Probably if I looked at the softball
22  roster I might be able to recall whose parent it was,
00091
 1  but I don't have any records with me.
 2       Q    I'm sure I can provide that to you.
 3            (Exhibit Number 8 was marked for
 4  identification and was retained by counsel.)
 5  BY MR. RAND:
 6       Q    Mr. Nori, what did you do with the support
 7  documents for your investigation?
 8       A    I shredded them.
 9       Q    Does Magruder have a shredder?
10       A    Yes.
11       Q    Why did you shred them?
12       A    Because they contain students' names and I
13  didn't want that to be information that would be
14  available to anybody.
15       Q    What was it about the student names that
16  you thought was necessary to protect?
17       A    Well, I think any time there are students'
18  names involved in any kind of an activity
19  investigation, that sort of thing, it's my obligation
20  to protect them to the best of my ability, and so
21  just as a matter of course discarded the documents.
22       Q    Let me show you what has been marked as
00092
 1  Exhibit Number 8 and ask if you can identify that?
 2       A    It is my memo of expectations to Mr.
 3  Hassler.
 4       Q    Directing your attention to the second
 5  paragraph of that document, the second sentence, you
 6  say that includes using an appropriate tone of voice
 7  and not using your position to intimidate them in any
 8  way.
 9            What were the nature of your discussions
10  with Mr. Hassler whether or not he intimidated his
11  players?
12       A    The coach can be intimidating by the nature
13  of the relationship with the players and because of
14  the allegations that had been made, I wanted to make
15  sure I put in the statement, make sure they have an
16  understanding that they have a right to say no, I
17  can't do that; that's not the way I understood it,
18  that sort of thing.
19       Q    In the last sentence in paragraph two you
20  state, "Please be aware that chiding the girls for
21  being too slow," quotes, "or two stupid or thinking
22  too much won't motivate them, it will only turn them
00093
 1  off."
 2            Where did that information come from that
 3  he in fact did that?
 4       A    I don't know seeing that he in fact did
 5  that.  I took that from the complaints that I got
 6  from Mrs. Sutton that her concern was that those are
 7  the kinds of things that he said to students.  I
 8  don't know if she wrote that in her letter or said
 9  that to me.
10       Q    You spoke to Mrs. Sutton in August?
11       A    Yes.
12       Q    And you didn't do anything until you got
13  her letter of November 12th?
14       A    Right.
15       Q    And you didn't, if you would take a look at
16  the letter of November 12th, but I don't see any
17  reference as to chiding, being too stupid or too slow
18  or thinking too much?
19       A    That was my understanding of the kind of
20  things she was complaining about.
21       Q    Where did that language come from?
22       A    My language.
00094
 1       Q    That came from Mrs. Sutton?
 2       A    No, my interpretation of what I understood
 3  her to be saying.
 4            I think she actually said he chided the
 5  girls for thinking too much on the field.  There was
 6  concern that on one of the pieces of paper that he
 7  puts out for the team, and in the context of talking
 8  about that she said something about not wanting the
 9  girls to think too much, just react.  Those are my
10  words, not hers, I'm not trying to put words in her
11  mouth.
12       Q    Was it possible that those complaints had
13  come from some of the students that you had talked
14  to?
15       A    No.
16       Q    So you're saying that the only source of
17  those complaints was Mrs. Sutton, too loud, too
18  stupid, thinking too much?
19       A    Yes.
20       Q    When you say in the last sentence of the
21  third paragraph that retribution will not be
22  tolerated, what did you mean?
00095
 1       A    General concern that parents and students
 2  often have, if I'm the one who complains about
 3  something, then the teacher or coach will come back
 4  to get me, and that specifically was stated as a
 5  comment about Gennie and other students.  That he
 6  knew I talked to the girls, there was to be no
 7  indication to the girls whatsoever that there is
 8  anything that you're getting even for in your actions
 9  towards them, is what I wanted to make clear to him.
10       Q    When in fact that became an issue with
11  respect to Gennie's involvement in the County Science
12  Fair, what actions did you take to make sure there
13  was not retribution?
14       A    You mean the day of the game?
15       Q    Yes.
16       A    I had conferred with him prior to the game
17  that he was going to play her.  When she came to me
18  upset I told her to go out there because I knew he
19  was going to play her.  I went to the game.
20       Q    What discussion did you have prior to the
21  game?
22       A    I had gotten word about the Science Fair, I
00096
 1  don't recall how I knew that, but there was concern
 2  that he was not going to start Gennie.  She might
 3  have told Mr. Cross, I don't recall, he wasn't going
 4  to start Gennie, wasn't going to play Gennie because
 5  of her involvement in the Science Fair.  I said to
 6  him, her involvement in the Science Fair was not
 7  reason for her not to play, so I sent her back out to
 8  the game.
 9       Q    Did you have discussion with Mr. Hassler
10  about where Mrs. Sutton would have gotten such an
11  idea?
12       A    I don't recall having any discussion about
13  that.
14       Q    Mrs. Sutton communicates to you that her
15  daughter has told her that Mr. Hassler has told her
16  that she wasn't going to play because she missed
17  practice, she had to be at the Science Fair?
18       A    Was that an e-mail message that she sent?
19       Q    Let me show you what has been marked as
20  Bates stamp Number 366.  If you would take a moment
21  to review that e-mail?
22       A    I have.
00097
 1       Q    Do you recall receiving this from Mrs.
 2  Sutton?
 3       A    Yes.
 4       Q    And it was as a result of receiving that
 5  e-mail that you had a conversation with Mr. Hassler?
 6       A    Yes.
 7       Q    Did you ask Mr. Hassler about the
 8  conversation you had with Gennie that is reflected in
 9  paragraph one of this e-mail?
10            MR. RAND:  Numbered one?
11  BY MR. SUNTUM:
12       Q    Paragraph numbered one?
13       A    I don't recall if I asked him specifically
14  about that.
15       Q    What did you do, walk up and say are you
16  going to play Gennie today?
17       A    I probably walked up to him, Gennie missed
18  practices, I am creating the conversation, I don't
19  know what I said.  But I talked to him about the fact
20  that she needed to play in the game, that being
21  involved in the Science Fair wasn't a reason not to
22  play in the game.
00098
 1       Q    You didn't question him at all about
 2  whether or not what Suzanne Sutton says he said was
 3  accurate?
 4       A    I don't recall, I really don't.
 5       Q    In reading what Suzanne said he said, do
 6  you agree that that is inappropriate, if in fact that
 7  is an accurate reflection of his conversation with
 8  Gennie?
 9       A    I don't know if it is an accurate
10  reflection of his conversation with her.
11            Do I think that coaches say kids are not
12  going to play in the game if they don't attend
13  practice?  Absolutely.  I think the expectation is
14  that kids attend practice if they are going to play
15  in the game.  Is it conceivable that somebody may
16  have said that?
17       Q    So you didn't think it was a serious issue?
18       A    What he might have said to her in light of
19  the investigation that was going on, yes.  I think
20  generally speaking if a coach says to a kid, if you
21  don't attend practice you're not going to play in the
22  game, I don't think that's serious.
00099
 1       Q    Even an excused absence, missing practice
 2  because of an academic pursuit?
 3       A    I think the coach needs to take this into
 4  consideration and following the guidelines allowing
 5  kids to miss because of academic pursuits.
 6       Q    My question is when told by Mrs. Sutton
 7  that Mr. Hassler has threatened not to play Gennie
 8  because she missed practice for the Science Fair, you
 9  didn't have a conversation with him about that?
10       A    I didn't say I didn't have a conversation
11  with him.  I said I don't remember the conversation.
12  I am being as totally honest as I can be with you.
13       Q    You don't recall whether or not he
14  explained himself?
15       A    What I recall is that I said to him, Gennie
16  should not be punished for missing the practice
17  because of academic pursuit.  My expectation is that
18  you will play her in the game.  I know that I said
19  that to him.
20       Q    Did he explain why initially he intended
21  not to play her?
22       A    He never said.
00100
 1       Q    You never got to the bottom of that
 2  question whether or not he had that intention?
 3       A    I don't remember if I asked him that
 4  question or not.  I said that three times.
 5       Q    If he had an excuse as to why he wasn't
 6  going to play her in this litigation you wouldn't be
 7  able to shed light on whether or not he gave that
 8  explanation back in April?
 9       A    I don't recall what he said.  If you told
10  me what he said, maybe that would help, but I don't
11  recall.
12       Q    Did he suggest to you in your conversation
13  with him that she wasn't going to play the entire
14  game?
15       A    No, he didn't.
16       Q    Did he suggest to you in his conversation
17  that this was anything different than this game or
18  any other game?
19       A    Not that I recall.
20       Q    Did you come away with an understanding
21  that he did in fact not intend to play her until you
22  had a conversation with him?
00101
 1       A    No, I came away with the impression that he
 2  was planning to play her.
 3       Q    That is the impression he gave you when you
 4  first spoke with him?
 5       A    Yes.
 6       Q    Did you have a conversation about the
 7  extension of a scrimage reflected in paragraph number
 8  two?
 9       A    I don't recall.
10       Q    In fact after having this discussion with
11  Mr. Hassler where you told him you expected Gennie to
12  play, Gennie came to your office and told you she
13  wasn't starting, right?
14       A    Correct.
15       Q    And that was the first game she didn't
16  start all season?
17       A    As far as I know.
18       Q    What steps did you take to investigate why
19  she wasn't starting?
20       A    I told her, I sent her back out to the
21  field, "I know that you are going to play in the
22  game, go back out there," and I followed her out
00102
 1  there.
 2       Q    Was it your understanding after talking
 3  with Mr. Hassler that he was going to treat this game
 4  just like any other game?
 5       A    Can you clarify your question?
 6       Q    The question is, this is the only game that
 7  Gennie did not start.  She came into your office and
 8  said I'm not starting, that didn't strike you as
 9  inappropriate in light of the conversation you had
10  just had with Mr. Hassler earlier that day?
11       A    I hadn't discussed starting or not
12  starting, I discussed playing or not playing with
13  him.  So my recollection is that my reaction to it,
14  was darn it, I thought we had it clear she was going
15  to play.  Go out there, I know he is going to play
16  you, in fact he did play her.  I didn't talk about
17  starting her.
18       Q    Did you have any discussion with Mr.
19  Hassler after the game to explain why he didn't start
20  her?
21       A    As I recall he said because she had missed
22  so many practices.   In fact --
00103
 1       Q    But that was the conversation that you just
 2  had before the game that he wasn't going to do that
 3  in light of the reason?
 4       A    No, before the game he told me he was going
 5  to play her.  You're confusing playing and starting.
 6  I didn't ask before the game about starting, it
 7  didn't occur to me, I wouldn't presume to tell a
 8  coach who starts and who doesn't.  What occurred to
 9  me was to make sure she plays in the game, that she
10  wasn't penalized by not playing for missing
11  practices, not missing practices and in fact didn't
12  start because that is the coach's prerogative.  One
13  of the complaints that Mr. Wilson brought, she missed
14  so many practices and was still allowed to play, it
15  wasn't fair to the other girls.
16       Q    Do you have any idea how many she missed?
17       A    Seven, I believe that's what I was told.  I
18  wasn't there to count her in or out, but I believe it
19  was seven.
20       Q    Who told you that?
21       A    I don't recall, I just know that I saw the
22  number 7 there somewhere.
00104
 1       Q    After the conclusion of your investigation
 2  you were aware that Mrs. Sutton and Gennie were very
 3  concerned about reprisal from Mr. Hassler, and you
 4  and Mr. Glascoe had a conference with Mrs. Sutton to
 5  assure her that nothing of that nature would be
 6  tolerated?
 7       A    Correct.
 8       Q    You advised Mrs. Sutton that academics were
 9  to come first?
10       A    Yes.
11       Q    And you advised Gennie would not be
12  penalized if she had to leave a practice because of
13  academic pursuits?
14       A    That I know.
15       Q    First occasion that that was raised by them
16  as a concern all you do is ask is she going to play?
17       A    I didn't see not starting as a reprisal.
18  Perhaps she did, perhaps Gennie does, I didn't see
19  not starting as a reprisal.
20       Q    What is the Ryan Stewart award?
21       A    It's a baseball player that was killed I
22  believe in 1989 or '90, I'm not sure which, there is
00105
 1  an award given in his honor to an athlete.
 2       Q    What are the qualification characteristics
 3  that are suppose to be exhibited by that award?
 4       A    I can speak in general terms but I can't
 5  quote exactly what they are off the top of my head.
 6            Sportsmanship, and I believe it also
 7  carries academic qualifications, but I'm not sure off
 8  the top of my head.
 9       Q    Baseball and softball?
10       A    I believe so.
11       Q    Do you have any understanding as to why
12  Gennie didn't receive that award?
13       A    No.
14       Q    Did you make an investigation as to that?
15       A    Why would I?
16       Q    Were you concerned with insuring that there
17  weren't any reprisals against Gennie?
18       A    About that award?
19       Q    Who was responsible for nominating the
20  students for that award?
21       A    I don't know.  That award never came to my
22  mind with Gennie.
00106
 1       Q    Did you ever have a meeting February 19th
 2  after the meeting between you and Mr. Glascoe and
 3  Mrs. Sutton, did you ever have a follow up meeting
 4  between Mr. Hassler and Mrs. Sutton?
 5       A    No.
 6       Q    Why not?
 7       A    Mr. Hassler refused to participate in the
 8  meeting without counsel, and Mr. Glascoe's comment to
 9  me was that I didn't have to hold that meeting if he
10  wasn't going to participate and I was not required to
11  hold that meeting if my memory serves.
12       Q    You asked Mr. Hassler to participate in the
13  meeting and he wouldn't do it without a lawyer?
14       A    I don't know if it was a lawyer or the
15  union, but he wanted some kind of representation and
16  the atmosphere we hoped to foster in that meeting was
17  one of conciliation and we didn't think it would go
18  anywhere at that point.
19       Q    Do you know whether or not Suzanne Sutton
20  has ever been a substitute teacher at Magruder?
21       A    I don't know.
22       Q    Are you aware whether or not it's common
00107
 1  knowledge at Magruder that Mr. Hassler, who is the
 2  plaintiff, filed this lawsuit?
 3       A    I don't know.
 4       Q    Do you know who filed this lawsuit?
 5       A    Yes, I do.
 6       Q    Who filed it?
 7       A    Mr. Hassler.
 8       Q    Have you had any discussions about the
 9  pendency of this lawsuit?
10       A    Yes.
11       Q    Who have you discussed it with?
12       A    My assistant principals and myself.
13       Q    Are you aware of the role of Mrs. Sutton's
14  letter to you in this lawsuit?
15       A    Yes, I am.
16       Q    What is your understanding of the role that
17  the letter has?
18       A    I shouldn't say I am aware of its role.  I
19  know that the letter is the key to the lawsuit, but I
20  don't know specifically what that means.
21       Q    Do you think it's appropriate for a
22  principal to ask a parent to put complaints in
00108
 1  writing and have the parent sued for defamation for
 2  doing just that?
 3       A    Do I think that's appropriate?
 4       Q    Yes.
 5       A    I think it is unfortunate that there is a
 6  suit for defamation.  I think it is important that
 7  you look at the copies of who the letter went to.  I
 8  think public documents went --
 9       Q    Do you think there is anyone that was
10  copied that wasn't involved in the school
11  administration?
12       A    No.
13       Q    Mrs. Sutton brought the issue up and
14  suggests you do something and nothing was done in
15  September?
16       A    Not about the issues in the letter.
17       Q    The fact that this letter was sent to
18  superiors insured that something was going to be
19  done, theoretically?
20       A    Theoretically.
21       Q    And it's your explanation that the reason
22  even after receiving this letter you did nothing is
00109
 1  that you had a personal problem?
 2       A    I said that I had personal and professional
 3  concerns that kept me from acting on it immediately,
 4  delayed it two and a half weeks.
 5       Q    Until you received a directive from on high
 6  to do something about it?
 7       A    No, that's not true.  At the point where I
 8  got the call from Mr. Glascoe I had spoken to
 9  assistant principals about the letter and we talked
10  about how to attack the issues in the letter.
11       Q    What records are maintained at Magruder
12  concerning requested transfers out of teachers'
13  classes?
14       A    I'm not sure if copies of transfer requests
15  are retained in the guidance office or not, I would
16  have to check.
17       Q    Do you know if there were any copies of the
18  actual requests, numerical records kept as to which
19  teacher?
20       A    I'm not sure.
21       Q    Do you know whether or not Mr. Hassler has
22  an inordinate number of students requesting to be
00110
 1  transferred out?
 2       A    I can't quote you numbers, that has not
 3  been reported to me.
 4       Q    After Mrs. Sutton brought her concerns to
 5  your attention, did you have any conversations with
 6  the counselors at Magruder as to whether or not they
 7  had been hearing complaints from the students they
 8  were counseling?
 9       A    Not as a group.  I talked to one counselor
10  and I talked to the resource teacher in mathematics.
11       Q    Which counselor did you speak with?
12       A    I believe it was Mrs. Levine.
13       Q    What did Mrs. Levine tell you about her
14  knowledge of any complaints about Mr. Hassler?
15       A    I specifically asked about transfers, I
16  think, and she said, you know, not an inordinate
17  amount, some requests but not many.
18       Q    Is that the only issue you recall
19  discussing?
20       A    At that time.
21       Q    Did you have any other discussions with any
22  other counselor about Mr. Hassler on any other
00111
 1  occasion?
 2       A    I am sure I did but I can't recall who or
 3  where or when.
 4       Q    Do you believe it is appropriate for a
 5  Montgomery County High School sports coach to yell
 6  and verbalize as you have come to understand Mr.
 7  Hassler did in the past?
 8       A    Do I believe it's appropriate?
 9       Q    Yes.
10       A    Usually no.  There are some circumstances
11  under which I would think that it would be
12  explainable.
13       Q    Do you find it reasonable to believe that
14  many parents would consider that abusive behavior, if
15  their children are subjected to such yelling?
16            MR. RAND:  Objection.
17       A    I think I would use the word authoritative
18  rather than abusive, I think some parents would find
19  it that way.
20  BY MR. SUNTUM:
21       Q    Do you think it is appropriate for a parent
22  that finds it is abusive to complain about the
00112
 1  coaching?
 2       A    Yes.
 3       Q    What is your understanding of Mr. Hassler's
 4  reputation as a teacher?
 5       A    I think that most people see Mr. Hassler as
 6  an average teacher who is pretty traditional in the
 7  way that he approaches things.
 8       Q    What is your understanding of his
 9  reputation as a coach?
10       A    His reputation as a wrestling coach, that
11  he is an outstanding wrestling coach.  That he has
12  over the years won many honors.  As a softball couch
13  his reputation doesn't stretch back as far.  He
14  turned a program that was a problem program around
15  and created, brought structure to it, but also, as
16  you know, I had some concerns and he's no longer the
17  coach and I can't speak to his ability in other
18  sports.
19       Q    What is your understanding as far as the
20  quality of his teaching is concerned?  What is your
21  understanding of his reputation as far as the quality
22  of his teaching is concerned?
00113
 1       A    I think it depends on the courses that he's
 2  teaching.  It's stronger in some areas than it is in
 3  others.
 4       Q    Do you know whether or not he's qualified,
 5  that he is qualified to teach precalculus?
 6       A    To my knowledge he is.
 7       Q    Is he presently teaching precalculus?
 8       A    Yes.
 9       Q    Do you know that he went to a class and
10  said they're lucky they are not going to have him
11  next year and he doesn't teach that?
12            MR. RAND:  Objection.
13       A    I'm sorry?
14  BY MR. SUNTUM:
15       Q    Would you be surprised?
16            MR. RAND:  Surprised that he acknowledged
17  that he didn't know precalculus?
18       A    That he didn't know precalculus?
19  BY MR. SUNTUM:
20       Q    Yes.
21       A    Yes, that would surprise me.
22       Q    Let me show you a copy of Mr. Hassler's
00114
 1  college transcript.  Are you familiar with his
 2  performance in mathematics in college?
 3       A    I have seen his transcript.
 4       Q    Are you suggesting the transcript reflects
 5  an understanding of the subject matter?
 6       A    I am suggesting that this transcript does
 7  reflect exactly what I said, he's stronger in some
 8  subjects than others, he's currently teaching
 9  consumer math, he does well on that, and lower level
10  math, and that's where his strength would be.
11            MR. RAND:  Can I get a copy of that?
12  BY MR. SUNTUM:
13       Q    What is your understanding of whether or
14  not Mr. Hassler covers all of the subject areas in a
15  subject that he's teaching relative to other
16  teachers?
17       A    Mr. Bussard tells me he is comfortable with
18  that.  He monitors what goes on in the math classes
19  so closely, so I am comfortable that Mr. Bussard has
20  a handle on it.
21       Q    Do you know what Mr. Hassler's reputation
22  is with respect to facilitating an atmosphere in his
00115
 1  class where students are comfortable asking
 2  questions?
 3       A    Well I can only speak for what I have seen
 4  and that's an observation that I did the other day.
 5  They seemed pretty comfortable asking questions and I
 6  haven't had reason to think otherwise.
 7       Q    Are you aware that an e-mail went out to
 8  former students of Magruder and present students of
 9  Magruder asking for information about Mr. Hassler?
10       A    Yes, I am.
11       Q    Are you aware of that response to that
12  e-mail?
13       A    No, I'm not.
14       Q    Are you aware that there was substantial
15  response to that e-mail?
16       A    I would have no way of knowing that.
17       Q    Are you aware of how the students at
18  Magruder feel about Mr. Hassler?
19       A    I don't think there is one way you can
20  characterize the way students feel about a teacher.
21  I think there is a range.
22       Q    What is your understanding of Mr. Hassler's
00116
 1  reputation among the students at Magruder?
 2       A    I think that some students find him to be
 3  harsh, some students find him to be caring, I think
 4  some students find him to be not the sharpest teacher
 5  they have had, but others find him to be comforting,
 6  I guess is the word I would use.
 7       Q    Do you know whether or not Mrs. Sutton is
 8  still receiving tutorial referrals from Wayne
 9  Bussard?
10       A    No, I don't.
11       Q    Do you have any reason to suggest that Mrs.
12  Sutton shouldn't be receiving the tutoring referrals
13  she has received in the past?
14       A    No.
15       Q    Do you find it of concern if in fact she is
16  not receiving tutorial referrals?
17       A    Concern to me?
18       Q    Yes.
19       A    No, not personally.
20       Q    Do you think it would be appropriate for
21  Mrs. Sutton not to be receiving tutoring referrals
22  because of her involvement in the litigation?
00117
 1       A    Not because of litigation, no.
 2       Q    Do you think it's appropriate for you to
 3  investigate what tutors your teachers are referring
 4  the students to at Magruder?
 5       A    Do I think it's appropriate for me to
 6  investigate?  I think I should be aware of the
 7  referrals.  We need to be sure that they are not, for
 8  example, referring everybody to one or two tutors,
 9  and that they're being even handed in giving parents
10  a choice.
11       Q    Have you investigated whether or not Mrs.
12  Sutton has been taken off the tutor list, so to
13  speak, at Magruder?
14       A    No, I would have no reason to think that
15  she would be, I haven't had a complaint.
16       Q    Will you raise with Mr. Bussard whether or
17  not Mrs. Sutton is receiving as many tutorial
18  referrals in the past and if not why not?
19       A    Will I?
20       Q    Yes.
21       A    I have no problem with that, raising that.
22       Q    Would you please respond to me what Mr.
00118
 1  Bussard's responds to you in that regard, what the
 2  historical tutorial referral pattern has been and
 3  whether or not that is presently the case?
 4       A    You want me to get numbers from him?  I
 5  doubt that he has any records of that, I will ask
 6  generally.
 7            MR. RAND:  I presume I will be on the other
 8  end of the call when any information is given.
 9            MR. SUNTUM:  If it's relevant to this
10  litigation you'll certainly be advised of it.
11  BY MR. SUNTUM:
12       Q    What records do you believe Magruder has
13  with respect to tutors and who is recommended?
14       A    I believe all that we have is a tutoring
15  list, I don't think we have kept records who has
16  received the list, we have a bank of names for each
17  subject.
18       Q    When a student wants a tutor, how do they
19  get a recommendation?
20       A    They talk to a teacher or counselor.
21       Q    And you have the ability to find out
22  whether or not those teachers and counselors have
00119
 1  changed their recommendations in light of this
 2  litigation?
 3       A    Not clear cut, I can ask general questions,
 4  do you continue to refer or have you given out Mrs.
 5  Sutton's name.
 6       Q    Have you ever heard Mr. Hassler tell you
 7  the Fugowie Indian joke?
 8       A    Never heard.
 9       Q    In referring to his file in 1989, Mr. Gramm
10  had a conversation with him in which a parent was
11  requesting her child to be removed from his class
12  because of inappropriate jokes?
13       A    Yes.
14       Q    One of which specifically was the Fugowie
15  Indian joke?
16       A    I saw that in the file.
17       Q    Did you assume that Mr. Hassler was
18  instructed to stop telling that joke?
19       A    Did I assume that?  I don't recall exactly
20  what the memo said, I assume from the memo Mr.
21  Hassler understood not to do that.
22       Q    Do you understand that from the deposition
00120
 1  testimony he has been telling that joke every year
 2  for the past 30 years in spite of that conversation
 3  in 1989?
 4       A    Didn't know that, no.
 5       Q    You understand in response to that e-mail
 6  that Haharron Hebran generated that.  Mr. Hebran is
 7  black.  Do you understand Mr. Hebran to a have a
 8  thick accent?
 9            MR. RAND:  Objection.
10       A    He does, not particularly thick.
11  BY MR. SUNTUM:
12       Q    Are you aware that Mr. Hassler made fun of
13  that accent in class?
14            MR. RAND:  Objection.
15       A    No.
16  BY MR. SUNTUM:
17       Q    Do you have any explanation as to how such
18  conduct as the joking and the derogatory statements
19  in the atmosphere as reflected in the e-mail which we
20  will be glad to provide to you could occur without
21  the administration at Magruder being aware of it over
22  a 25 year period?
00121
 1            MR. RAND:  Objection.
 2       A    Ask the question again.
 3       Q    In reviewing Mr. Hassler's file all of
 4  these formal evaluations reflect satisfactory
 5  evaluations.  Do you have any explanation as to why
 6  his file would have such evaluations if in fact what
 7  Mr. Hassler is actually doing in his classroom is
 8  quite different?
 9       A    Yes, a simple explanation, it's the exact
10  same phenomenon that occurred in my softball
11  investigation, and that's that there are allegations
12  made and there is no substantiation.  That could
13  happen with any teacher anytime, anywhere.  It could
14  happen with an attorney, hearsay is magic, Mr. Sam
15  Tanious said some things about me.
16       Q    What did he say?
17       A    He said that I lied.  He said that I made
18  up details.
19       Q    Have you seen the e-mail?
20       A    I have, I have a copy of it.
21       Q    Do you have it with you?
22       A    No.
00122
 1       Q    And if you don't have the same one that I
 2  have I'll be happy to give you the one I have.
 3            Let me show you what I have and you tell me
 4  if it's the same one.
 5            While looking for that --
 6            (Exhibit Number 9 was marked for
 7  identification and was retained by counsel.)
 8  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 9       Q    Before we go into the detail of the e-mail,
10  are you suggesting that the students who have
11  corroborated the complaints of Mrs. Sutton are in
12  error and that there is no validity to their
13  complaints?
14            MR. RAND:  Objection.
15       A    No, I am suggesting that there is always
16  hearsay as a part of it, unsubstantiated reports.
17  BY MR. SUNTUM:
18       Q    If a report comes --
19       A    I don't know what they said so how can I
20  have an opinion?
21       Q    Are you saying that there is no
22  substantiation to the allegations?
00123
 1            MR. RAND:  Objection.
 2       A    What I am suggesting is that there is
 3  always embellishment and hearsay involved in any kind
 4  of reports like this.
 5  BY MR. SUNTUM:
 6       Q    Are you suggesting that there is no
 7  validity or corroboration for complaints made by
 8  Suzanne Sutton in her letter of November 12th?
 9       A    I don't know the answer to that question.
10       Q    Let me show you Exhibit Number 9 and ask
11  you if that's a copy of the e-mail you are referring
12  to?
13       A    Yes, it is.
14       Q    And where in this e-mail do you content
15  Mr. Tanious said you lied?
16       A    Perhaps his wording makes it not a lie, he
17  says implying that the letter would be kept
18  confidential, I did not imply that to Mrs. Sutton.
19       Q    There is no question that the letter was
20  disclosed to Mr. Hassler and Mrs. Sutton was
21  surprised?
22       A    Absolutely.
00124
 1       Q    There is little doubt that she thought
 2  that?
 3       A    That was not my intention.
 4       Q    Is that the sole basis for your contention
 5  that Mr. Tanious called you a liar?
 6       A    There was another comment in there, but
 7  perhaps I'm wrong.  Let me read it again please.
 8  Perhaps it's the referral to my destroying evidence
 9  as opposed to discarding, shredding my notes.
10       Q    He says, quotes, shredded the file and,
11  quotes, testimony.  That's in fact what you did?
12       A    Absolutely, I have said that I did.
13       Q    And that was the evidence and that was the
14  corroboration, correct, that was shredded?
15       A    The corroboration, yes, those were my
16  notes.  But it doesn't say I'm a liar.
17            I take this back.  I didn't like the tone
18  of the e-mail about me.  I thought that saying that I
19  implied it would be kept confidential was incorrect,
20  and the tone of my shredding evidence makes it sound
21  as if I was trying to cover something up which I was
22  not.
00125
 1       Q    What comes through the e-mail, it appears
 2  common knowledge to the students that Mr. Hassler
 3  humiliates people, loses his temper, tells racist
 4  jokes, makes off color comments and he is requesting
 5  students with personal knowledge of such things to
 6  e-mail him back.
 7            MR. RAND:  Objection.
 8       A    That's what it says.
 9  BY MR. SUNTUM:
10       Q    That doesn't concern you, common knowledge
11  among the students that a teacher does that?
12            MR. RAND:  Objection.
13       A    I have told you that it does.  You have
14  asked me that and I said yes.
15  BY MR. SUNTUM:
16       Q    What have you done to exhibit your concern
17  with respect to investigating or finding out whether
18  or not these allegations are in fact true and not
19  invalid?
20            MR. RAND:  Objection.
21       A    The allegations in the e-mail?
22  BY MR. SUNTUM:
00126
 1       Q    Yes.
 2       A    I have done nothing about the e-mail, I
 3  haven't seen responses to it.
 4       Q    We will make sure you do.
 5       A    Thank you.
 6       Q    The last page of Mr. Tanious' e-mail says,
 7  "I expect to get a big response, Hassler's behavior
 8  is and never was a secret.  I will be willing to bet
 9  just about every one of you has something that can be
10  of assistance."  That doesn't cause you concern that
11  students believe it's common knowledge that everyone
12  will have an example?
13            MR. RAND:  Objection.
14       A    I already said it causes me concern.
15  BY MR. SUNTUM:
16       Q    Not enough to do anything?  You haven't
17  done anything in response to the e-mail.
18       A    This was not given independently to me, it
19  was given as a bootleg copy.
20            MRS. SUTTON:  It doesn't matter.
21       A    Of course it matters.  Should somebody be
22  held liable because of comments made in general,
00127
 1  because of hearsay?  I don'